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KP Report: NC State @ WF - 2 pm Saturday RSN

Stan said it during the game, Forbes preaches 2 handed rebounding and they weren't doing it. It boils down to players have to want to play hard, a good coach can do a lot to get it out of them, but they can't make them.
 
Yeah nobody is jumping ship on Forbes. I just pray to god he can recruit some players. Believe he can. But we need players. This fan base has been trying to polish turds (no pun intended) of players for a decade. We have coaching we need players.
 
I'm NOT jumping ship on Forbes, but this loss was painful in so many areas. And, yes, Forbes admits and needs to do a better job with this team. But, Forbes, like the team, is still learning. Most teams in the NCAA are all over the place (up and down) this season. Forbes made his chops by excelling with less talent. Now, his staff has to figure some stuff out.

Maybe it's substitution patterns, switching defensive schemes, playing guys w/2 fouls longer, benching dudes for making the same dumb ass mistakes over and over, or not hustling, etc. A lot of blame to go around.
 
Expected a close game since Daniels was out and possibly a nice home win.

Didn't happen. Have to put this one in our behind.
 
I couldn’t have been more wrong about this game.

Disappointing effort at home against a mediocre opponent.

The end of the season can’t get here quickly enough. Need to improve the returning players and replace the ones who leave with much better talent.
 
Of course we were owed apologies for the last 10 years and we get one from Forbes in year one.

Ball movement against FSU was great. Poor against dook and state. At least there is a relationship between what Forbes says and our success and failures.
 
DeacsATS said:
I couldn’t have been more wrong about this game.

Disappointing effort at home against a mediocre opponent.

The end of the season can’t get here quickly enough. Need to improve the returning players and replace the ones who leave with much better talent.
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Same. Watched every WF and State ACC game and didn’t see this coming. State without Daniels is mediocre. WF had faced the Pack once and should’ve been ready for their D. Not shocked WF lost, but floored with the way State dominated.
 
Wake has a talent deficit. Hustle, energy, effort and a new system kept the Deacs close the first time through the schedule. The league has a book on the players and the coach as the Deacs play teams for the second time. The opposing coaches are attacking the known weaknesses with more talented players and we have seen the result the past two games.

Some teams improve the second time thru the schedule. Some teams get worse. If GGTT and 40 minutes of effort don't return, we (the fans) can expect this to continue.
 
BlackjackMc said:
Wake has a talent deficit. Hustle, energy, effort and a new system kept the Deacs close the first time through the schedule. The league has a book on the players and the coach as the Deacs play teams for the second time. The opposing coaches are attacking the known weaknesses with more talented players and we have seen the result the past two games.

Some teams improve the second time thru the schedule. Some teams get worse. If GGTT and 40 minutes of effort don't return, we (the fans) can expect this to continue.
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In the ACC GGTT and lack of talent will only take you so far. I wouldnt be shocked if theres 6 new guys on the roster next season.
 
bigboy8 said:
In the ACC GGTT and lack of talent will only take you so far. I wouldnt be shocked if theres 6 new guys on the roster next season.
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We know there will be two new players and both show promise. If there are six new players they would need to be much better than the players they replace. No guarantees for that. Those players would then need to learn Forbes method and to play together as a team, just like this year. Could be better, could be worse. Forbes might prefer keeping players who know what he demands and focus on improving their skills to match what he wants. Keep the recruiting focus on Top 150 high school players and develop them as a team over four years. Time will tell.
 
Deac83 said:
Forbes gives us a little more than paint touches and FT's. He clearly articulates that we aren't the most talented team so we have to do all the little things and follow the game plan in order to compete.
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Yeah breath of fresh air to get actual analysis during postgame comments. A bit head scratching to me, however, that some of these issues (2 ball reversals for example) can’t be addresses and fixed mid-game.
 
Any idea what has happened to Isaiah Wilkins? His minutes have gone way down. 5 minutes vs State and 0 vs Duke. Did I miss something about him? Maybe just the return of Dubose?
 
Buttermaker said:
Yeah breath of fresh air to get actual analysis during postgame comments. A bit head scratching to me, however, that some of these issues (2 ball reversals for example) can’t be addresses and fixed mid-game.
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I think that’s what’s frustrating Forbes. Just look at the FSU game. We were moving the ball then stopped the last 5 minutes of the first half and boom we are down 10.

I think we have guys that don’t think they will get shots if they keep passing the ball.
 
First quarter of the game we're basically tied, not looking great but it felt like we were the better team.

Then Ody goes out with his 2nd. We get consecutive turnovers from Okpomo, they hit consecutive 3's. So we have to pull Okpomo and Funderburk gets consecutive dunks, in just 4 minutes of game time we're down 15 and never recover - we couldn't keep them off the boards and they hit shots.

With Massoud in meltdown mode right now, if Ody is out we basically don't have a front court. We have no viable 4's or 5's on our team. I don't mean "ACC quality" 4's and 5's, I mean viable at all for any level. Our point guards combined for 1 assist, they had nobody to throw it to inside, ever.

Against a team with anyone decent at the 4 and 5, we cannot survive without Ody on the floor. If there's criticism to be leveled at Forbes it's really just any unused Ody fouls, but he had 4 yesterday. In the back half of the season, he's played 25+ minutes against FSU - our best game of the year, Miami - a win, BC - a win. Limited minutes in the 3 blowouts. Not sure how you coach your way around not having a front court.
 
Pilchard said:
Same. Watched every WF and State ACC game and didn’t see this coming. State without Daniels is mediocre. WF had faced the Pack once and should’ve been ready for their D. Not shocked WF lost, but floored with the way State dominated.
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I also thought we were going to be more ready for their pressure “D” on the perimeter and in the backcourt, but when you go back and look at it, it speaks less to the coaching plan, but more to the lack of athleticism and talent in terms of ball handling and ability to effectively drive to the basket and convert. Nothing new in that statement, but I don’t think it reflects materially on Forbes and the coaching staff.
 
DCDeac said:
First quarter of the game we're basically tied, not looking great but it felt like we were the better team.

Then Ody goes out with his 2nd. We get consecutive turnovers from Okpomo, they hit consecutive 3's. So we have to pull Okpomo and Funderburk gets consecutive dunks, in just 4 minutes of game time we're down 15 and never recover - we couldn't keep them off the boards and they hit shots.

With Massoud in meltdown mode right now, if Ody is out we basically don't have a front court. We have no viable 4's or 5's on our team. I don't mean "ACC quality" 4's and 5's, I mean viable at all for any level. Our point guards combined for 1 assist, they had nobody to throw it to inside, ever.

Against a team with anyone decent at the 4 and 5, we cannot survive without Ody on the floor. If there's criticism to be leveled at Forbes it's really just any unused Ody fouls, but he had 4 yesterday. In the back half of the season, he's played 25+ minutes against FSU - our best game of the year, Miami - a win, BC - a win. Limited minutes in the 3 blowouts. Not sure how you coach your way around not having a front court.
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I agree with this, and perhaps its was a fluke, but WF hung with with other teams with front courts that are bigger/better than State (UNC - how they did not destroy WF inside I will never understand, VT, FSU, even Pitt). Going into the season, the big concern was that Ody was WF's only legit post defender, and he is foul prone. Then, Okpomo proved to be serviceable, and WF has been OK at surviving when neither was on floor. Recently, that has not been the case.
 
TOS appears close to melting down, surprising since that group is generally more balanced and level-headed. Some still don't fully appreciate how impossible Forbes' circumstances are this year. Even without the pandemic, which alone ought to get him a pass this season, he was dealt the sorriest hand in major college basketball in years. Wellman, Bz, and Manning drove this program into the ground at terminal velocity. It is going to take a long time to bring us back, everybody needs to zoom out and focus on the big picture for a while and not stress about fluctuations in effort game to game.
 
inspectah said:
TOS appears close to melting down, surprising since that group is generally more balanced and level-headed. Some still don't fully appreciate how impossible Forbes' circumstances are this year. Even without the pandemic, which alone ought to get him a pass this season, he was dealt the sorriest hand in major college basketball in years. Wellman, Bz, and Manning drove this program into the ground at terminal velocity. It is going to take a long time to bring us back, everybody needs to zoom out and focus on the big picture for a while and not stress about fluctuations in effort game to game.
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This 100%, i also think people had high expectations for Forbes to come in and win in year 1 which was never gonna happen. also everyone got their hopes up after the FSU game. everyone freaking out after 2 bad games needs to RELAX.
 
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