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Thread: Biden/Schumer/Pelosi Accountability Thread

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    The core of my premise is that we are paying a livable wage. That means different things to different people in different parts of the country.
    Where is $7.25/hr (around $16K/year) a living wage? Hell, where is $10/hr ($21-22K/yr) a living wage?

    And you canít factor in any government welfare or assistance, because if thatís needed then how is the original wage a living wage?

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    Not sure how part time vs full time plays into the issue since the wage is across the board.
    Yes, but the original argument had to do with workers comp and other benefit costs, which is determined by hours worked.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by BillBrasky View Post
    No they make $7.25/hr minimum. Owners not making up the difference if tips are low that day, are commuting wage theft. Which should be a felony and lead to lose of licensure.
    If the owner is now on the hook for the entire minimum rather than just the difference between what is earned from the minimum and tips you just increased their labor costs 340%.
    Hungry

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    If we are already paying a living wage why do people have to work multiple jobs and use government assistance to get by?
    Sorry, I was not clear. I do not think we are currently paying a living wage. My premise is that if the goal is to pay a living wage there is nuance in what that means.
    Hungry

  5. #185
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    Washington state has a $12/hour minimum wage. It's economy was booming before Covid.

    Once you get to $12/hour, it only takes a little more than 4 years to get to $15/hour by giving a 5% annually to minimum wage earners.

    Why can states that have higher wages, more regulations and other business costs prosper but others can't?

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    If the owner is now on the hook for the entire minimum rather than just the difference between what is earned from the minimum and tips you just increased their labor costs 340%.
    Umm they are already on the hook for the entire minimum. That's always been the law. If it wasn't, why wouldn't every business pay their employees $2.15 and ask for tips?

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    My state is 100 percent too stupid to ever do the right thing. Other than the 2020 election and runoff.
    So, it's not the wages. It's the business owners.

    Those who are too stupid to figure it out will go out of business and be replaced by competent people.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    Sorry, I was not clear. I do not think we are currently paying a living wage. My premise is that if the goal is to pay a living wage there is nuance in what that means.
    I don't think you'll find anybody argue that the cost of living varies in different parts of the country.

    However states (especially those with Republican legislatures) keep dragging their feet in supporting their workers, so if they don't actually do their fucking job then the federal government has to come in and use a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL68 View Post
    That's essentially what we have right now with the state setting their own minimum wages and you don't see that happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    The minimum wage is already different across states, and shockingly, large business still seem to be able to operate in California.
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    I don't think you'll find anybody argue that the cost of living varies in different parts of the country.

    However states (especially those with Republican legislatures) keep dragging their feet in supporting their workers, so if they don't actually do their fucking job then the federal government has to come in and use a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel.
    Exactly. Just like with Jim Crow. Gay Marriage. Women's Rights. Etc.

    Conservatives are naturally regressive and self-interested people. They don't like change, but they don't want to be personally inconvenienced.

    There is a reason that Conservative movements are always the long term loser in history. Conservative = wrong side of history.

  10. #190
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    You can't stop progress.

    I would think a woke person like Brasky would use the correct term -Marriage Equality rather than Gay Marriage.

  11. #191
    ^^ GD Multi-quote.

    As to RJ - you're right. Incorrect term, I should have been more inclusive. Not sure why I didn't just say LGBTQ rights.

  12. #192
    I like RJ repping California, which is expensive as shit and the perfect example of how state to state variability is a problem. Currently a NC minimum wage is equivalent to a California minimum wage. If North Carolina goes to 15/hr cost of living adjustment says California needs to go to 33/hr if we all want to live fairly.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    Labor costs doubling over a five year period is bad for any business.
    Thatís alarmist language intended to ignore the actual math. We are talking about raising salaries up to $15,000 a year. Somewhere up the organizational chart, itís not hard to find that $15,000 especially when they can plan five years ahead.

    Even in a small town, itís going to be easier to pay someone $30,000 a year in a town where everyone makes at least $30,000 a year.

  14. #194
    Also honestly the minimum wage seems like itís a compromise like the ACA was. Paying a living wage at a minimum is a great concept that has passed us by and relevant like 20+ years ago. The skill of being a human is no longer an actual skill do to globalization and more importantly technological advancement. Might as well get ahead and be forward thinking and just do universal basic income that covers living.

  15. #195
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    A minimum wage is a compromise for not having a maximum wage and actually having pretty low tax rates at the highest income levels.

    Make all you want and pay a little in taxes as long as you pay people $15/hr. Somehow thatís an impossible deal for too many people.

    The same arguments have been used against increasing wages going back to slavery. And the economic peril of workers being able to live has never come to fruition.

    Letís not think about the shitty business owner who can only make a profit through exploitation. Letís think about all the talent out there who should making more and could do more with that talent if they could just work 40 hours and live a decent life.

  16. #196
    Again, raising the minimum wage is not a dollar for dollar increase for business owners. I don't know enough about the ramifications to get into details, but I do know that my mother, who is in her 60s, works about 80 hours a week between prep, cleaning, catering, and actual business hours, and she certainly doesn't make $15 an hour. Part of that is because she takes on too much of the work herself, but also, no one in East Bumfuck,SC is going to pay $18 for a sandwich.

    I think that the minimum wage absolutely needs to be raised, and people shouldn't have to work two jobs just to barely keep above water. But I also think that this could cause problems for small individually owned businesses that can't absorb the cost as much as larger chains.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwing42 View Post
    Again, raising the minimum wage is not a dollar for dollar increase for business owners. I don't know enough about the ramifications to get into details, but I do know that my mother, who is in her 60s, works about 80 hours a week between prep, cleaning, catering, and actual business hours, and she certainly doesn't make $15 an hour. Part of that is because she takes on too much of the work herself, but also, no one in East Bumfuck,SC is going to pay $18 for a sandwich.

    I think that the minimum wage absolutely needs to be raised, and people shouldn't have to work two jobs just to barely keep above water. But I also think that this could cause problems for small individually owned businesses that can't absorb the cost as much as larger chains.
    Other than at extremely high end places, no one in CA charges $18 for a sandwich. My friend owns three cheesesteak/hoagie shops. All of which are in beach communities. He pays his workers more than minimum ($12 now), and his very meaty cheesesteaks and hoagies are $7-8. The infamous O'Connell's has tons of options for under $10. The excellent Chinese place (probably five times the size of the sandwich shop) in the same center as the cheesesteak place has lunches from $9-12. Full Dinners are under $20. The excellent family owned Italian place in that center has most dinners under $20.

    I would bet most places in CA aren't too far beyond the pricing of places in NC/SC.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by redwing42 View Post
    Again, raising the minimum wage is not a dollar for dollar increase for business owners. I don't know enough about the ramifications to get into details, but I do know that my mother, who is in her 60s, works about 80 hours a week between prep, cleaning, catering, and actual business hours, and she certainly doesn't make $15 an hour. Part of that is because she takes on too much of the work herself, but also, no one in East Bumfuck,SC is going to pay $18 for a sandwich.

    I think that the minimum wage absolutely needs to be raised, and people shouldn't have to work two jobs just to barely keep above water. But I also think that this could cause problems for small individually owned businesses that can't absorb the cost as much as larger chains.
    Comparing an owner of a business and what they make ďan hourĒ and the wage they pay their employees is nonsensical. Your momís true pay includes her equity in the business.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    If their parent(s) earns livable wage then their livable wage is $0.
    Thatís a huge if.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
    i noticed that too - she's taking lots of meetings with foreign HOS. they are going to put a lot of pressure on him to say one way or another by next year's midterms. has a sitting president ever *not* run for reelection when eligible?

    also if he passes the torch, would someone come out of the wordwork and primary Harris? Beto / AOC / 100 year old Bernie, etc.?
    James K. Polk comes to mind. Would you count LBJ?

    ETA: pretty sure Andrew Johnson didnít run either.
    Last edited by Ball State Deac; 02-27-2021 at 04:47 PM.

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