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Thread: Biden/Schumer/Pelosi Accountability Thread

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy2016 View Post
    all of those comments were unfair shots at someone sharing his mother's specific situation; I don't understand claiming to have empathy for people and then calling her a slaveowner

    I definitely agree that the national minimum wage is too low at its current level. I don't agree that $15 is the right amount in rural SC, or WV. $15 is definitely too low to provide anything approaching a living wage in the Silicon Valley. And in my opinion, there should be room for reasoned debate on the right level without invoking slavery.
    Good post.

    For the record, I am strongly in favor of the $15 minimum wage, but speaking in absolutes about the effects of increasing the minimum wage seems misguided. I think itís the single most controversial topic amongst economists.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    He called a restaurant owner a slaveholder. But, sure, Iím the asshole.

    Iím also a W-2 employee and my wife is a W-2 employee that gets paid by taxpayers.
    and I bet both you and your wife don't refrain from offering your opinion on stuff that might not involve being a W-2 employee paid by taxpayers. Just like Brasky.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy2016 View Post
    all of those comments were unfair shots at someone sharing his mother's specific situation; I don't understand claiming to have empathy for people and then calling her a slaveowner

    I definitely agree that the national minimum wage is too low at its current level. I don't agree that $15 is the right amount in rural SC, or WV. $15 is definitely too low to provide anything approaching a living wage in the Silicon Valley. And in my opinion, there should be room for reasoned debate on the right level without invoking slavery.
    Then SC and WV should raise their minimum wage so the federal government doesnít do it for them.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
    Good post.

    For the record, I am strongly in favor of the $15 minimum wage, but speaking in absolutes about the effects of increasing the minimum wage seems misguided. I think itís the single most controversial topic amongst economists.
    Is it? We have 80+ years of history of a minimum wage and various increases, and the evidence strongly points toward overall positive effects.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Is it? We have 80+ years of history of a minimum wage and various increases, and the evidence strongly points toward overall positive effects.
    Iím not an economist, but yes, I believe it is. There was a segment on NPR in which they were talking to an economist and she said something to the effect of, ďif you want 10+ hours of debate, ask a room of economists their opinion on minimum wage.Ē

  6. #226
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    Economists are largely full of shit and many are committed to justifying inequality.

    Slavery is a pretty important landmark in the history of US labor. Hard to have a legitimate discussion of minimum wage without understanding the constant desire by management to pay people nothing to work hard.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    What Obama tax cuts? Linking him with W and Trump is totally disingenuous.
    American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    there are not 140 Americans living below the poverty line as defined by US Census

    but I agree with the general sentiment: higher taxes at the top, bump the minimum wage, better state coverage of the essentials of life: housing, healthcare, food, childcare, education, etc.
    Yes sorry, I was conflating two arguments.

    Apparently 32 million Americans make less than $15 per hour and would benefit from a hike

  9. #229

    Biden/Schumer/Pelosi Accountability Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    Brasky speaks very boldly about small business owners and the economics of small businesses for a W-2 Employee paid by Taxpayers.
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy2016 View Post
    all of those comments were unfair shots at someone sharing his mother's specific situation; I don't understand claiming to have empathy for people and then calling her a slaveowner

    I definitely agree that the national minimum wage is too low at its current level. I don't agree that $15 is the right amount in rural SC, or WV. $15 is definitely too low to provide anything approaching a living wage in the Silicon Valley. And in my opinion, there should be room for reasoned debate on the right level without invoking slavery.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillBrasky View Post
    They should pay people a living wage. The Confederacy lost, slavery is over.
    Quoting this last post because I didnít remember calling the women in question a slave owner. And I didnít.

    Now did I compare our current economic system of paying people poverty wages and the cycle of hopelessness and debt it causes to slavery? Yes I did.

    But youíre right, itís not slavery. Itís far more similar to sharecropping, which to be fair, is a baby step better than slavery.

    You make $7.25/hour or $15-16K/year if youíre able to work 40/hrs every week, all year. You work other jobs to keep the lights on, you get into debt and then spend any extra money you having paying off that debt. You also have to personally pay for the tools of your trade (car/bus/train for transportation, appropriate wrk clothing, cell phone, internet access, etc), which you also have to go into debt for. And that doesn't include for health care or any of life's emergencies. Itís an endless cycle of poverty that most will never escape.

    Cav - do you know how I can explain the historical comparison between Sharecropping and $7.25/hr in today's world? Because Iím a state employee that gets a W-2 (I donít understand that dig) that educates the children that you seem to have no problem keeping trapped in this poverty cycle.
    Last edited by BillBrasky; 02-27-2021 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012
    Obama didn't create massive cuts. He had to extend some of Bush's to also extend EITC, unemployment and cut Social Security taxes. It didn't cut any individual taxes but kept millions from having their taxes increased.

    In no way is it comparable to W or Trump.

  11. #231

    Biden/Schumer/Pelosi Accountability Thread

    Cav Iíd also reciprocate and take a swipe at your profession, but I know enough corporate/business lawyers to understand that you probably hate your pointless career enough for the both of us.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    Yes sorry, I was conflating two arguments.

    Apparently 32 million Americans make less than $15 per hour and would benefit from a hike
    Itís nuts that 100 people can directly increase wages for over 20% of the workforce and they just wonít do it.

  13. #233
    Brasky, my point is you have never been concerned about labor costs and you will never have to worry about your hours getting cut because of an increase in labor costs for your employer.

    Iím on the record saying I support a living wage and that anybody that works 40 hours per week should not have to rely on government handouts to get by.
    Hungry

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconCav06 View Post
    Brasky, my point is you have never been concerned about labor costs and you will never have to worry about your hours getting cut because of an increase in labor costs for your employer.

    Iím on the record saying I support a living wage and that anybody that works 40 hours per week should not have to rely on government handouts to get by.
    Iím sure you believe the last part, but whatís the practical yearly number thatís needed to make that happen? Most of us would argue at least $30K+/year, even in our poorest states, especially if youíre paying for your own health insurance. What about if you have children, or elderly dependents? What about pre-existing health conditions? What about life? Which is unpredictable, and ruthless, and fucking expensive.

    Isnít a small business owner who pays their employees $7-8-9-10/hr knowingly placing their employees on government aid? Why does the government need to provide welfare to their employees, because they are not willing to pay a living wage? How is that scenario a net positive for our society? Why am I the tax payer subsidizing the wages of these people?

    And before you break into the HS kid who doesnít need the money argument, wouldnít we be better served with our unemployed adults working those jobs? $15/hr is a hell of an incentive to get off your couch and starting looking for work again. Itís better than what they get in charitable and government relief, and it provides a level of dignity and hope that so many lack.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Itís nuts that 100 people can directly increase wages for over 20% of the workforce and they just wonít do it.

    Only really need 60 of them.
    I love mankind...itís people I canít stand!!

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by ConnorEl View Post
    Only really need 60 of them.
    Or really 50 who realize thereís nothing in the Constitution that requires a supermajority.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
    Iím not an economist, but yes, I believe it is. There was a segment on NPR in which they were talking to an economist and she said something to the effect of, ďif you want 10+ hours of debate, ask a room of economists their opinion on minimum wage.Ē
    Well if one economist on NPR said itís true, it must be!

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Well if one economist on NPR said itís true, it must be!
    Well, this is kind of a pointless little sidebar you keep questioning, but yeah, itís highly debated amongst economists. Here are the results of 200 US economists surveyed https://epionline.org/studies/survey...inimum-wage-2/

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by BillBrasky View Post
    Iím sure you believe the last part, but whatís the practical yearly number thatís needed to make that happen? Most of us would argue at least $30K+/year, even in our poorest states, especially if youíre paying for your own health insurance. What about if you have children, or elderly dependents? What about pre-existing health conditions? What about life? Which is unpredictable, and ruthless, and fucking expensive.

    Isnít a small business owner who pays their employees $7-8-9-10/hr knowingly placing their employees on government aid? Why does the government need to provide welfare to their employees, because they are not willing to pay a living wage? How is that scenario a net positive for our society? Why am I the tax payer subsidizing the wages of these people?

    And before you break into the HS kid who doesnít need the money argument, wouldnít we be better served with our unemployed adults working those jobs? $15/hr is a hell of an incentive to get off your couch and starting looking for work again. Itís better than what they get in charitable and government relief, and it provides a level of dignity and hope that so many lack.
    So, how does this affect your argument? The restaurant in question is only open three hours a day (11-2), three days a week (was five before pandemic). Catering is extra, and only a couple employees participate in that. All employees are part time. None of the employees are expected to make a living off this job, it is only a side gig.

    To be clear, I am very much for a government which takes a larger role in protecting its citizens. National healthcare, higher taxes on the wealthy (even as low as $150K and up), higher minimum wage, give me all your socialist checks on on our capitalist system. We need them. And frankly, I hope my mother is out of the restaurant business before this phases in fully anyway. She doesn't need to be working that hard when she is 70. But one of the things that everyone seems to love in this country is quaint little shops and cafes owned by locals on a sleepy Main Street, America and I was wondering if those businesses would still be feasible if this were enacted. Especially if there are not supplemental bills/riders to support those small businesses.

  20. #240
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    The problem is her business model. Being open only three hours a day, five days a week makes it nearly impossible to make a profit in the restaurant business regardless of the minimum wage.

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