• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Biden/Schumer/Pelosi Accountability Thread

I am not a fan of Manchin, but let's be realistic.

If Manchin hadn't voted for the relief bill, it would have failed and none of what was in it would have been enacted.

As I said earlier, I am for a living wage (which means some places will be over $15/hour). However, if the $15 minimum wage bill had passed, it would have taken until 2025 to get to $15/hour and would start at about $9.50/hour. As of today, 25 states have minimum wages that are $9.50/hour or higher (almost all are over $10/hour). There are another three states that are $8.80-9.45/hour. Well over half of Americans live in states that are already over the starting point of the bill. Many wouldn't be impacted at all for 2-3 years. I'm not saying not to do it. I am showing the reality that impact would not be as great as one might think and can be fixed.

Overwhelmingly, the 22 remaining states are red states. Dems should be able to use the combination of voting against Covid, unemployment assistance, helping businesses and the minimum wage to win a bunch of seats in the 22 election to be able to do much more.

We need to add DC and Puerto Rico as states. We need a living wage. We need to open Medicare for everyone to buy into (this will lead to universal care faster than any other way) and a massively important of a new John Lewis VRA.
 
Manchin had no problem breaking “procedure” and voting in favor of an amendment that bans trans kids from playing sports. Luckily Murkowski voted no and it lost 50-49.

Joe Manchin will end up in the garbage dumpster of history. Bad guy.
 
BillBrasky said:
I take it you've never driven through the Panhandle. It is rural Alabama. If small businesses there can make a $15/hr MW work, why can't the rest of the country?

Also I just left my first ever County Democratic (Zoom) meeting. Somehow I became the precinct chair for our area. So I'm an officer of the Democratic Party now. WTF?
Click to expand...


Welcome to the establishment!!!


Seriously, good! And best wishes.
 
BillBrasky said:
Manchin had no problem breaking “procedure” and voting in favor of an amendment that bans trans kids from playing sports. Luckily Murkowski voted no and it lost 50-49.

Joe Manchin will end up in the garbage dumpster of history. Bad guy.
Click to expand...

This is by far my least liberal position, but I’ve coached both men’s and women’s sports for about 2 decades now, and there’s no way that anyone can convince me that, especially at a high school level, people that are born males and people that are born females belong on the same field of competition. I’ll await the hate.
 
mako1331 said:
This is by far my least liberal position, but I’ve coached both men’s and women’s sports for about 2 decades now, and there’s no way that anyone can convince me that, especially at a high school level, people that are born males and people that are born females belong on the same field of competition. I’ll await the hate.
Click to expand...

Who are these kids born with male genitalia who follow the rules and regulations to participate in girls sports who are dominating?

I’ll await the evidence.
 
mako1331 said:
This is by far my least liberal position, but I’ve coached both men’s and women’s sports for about 2 decades now, and there’s no way that anyone can convince me that, especially at a high school level, people that are born males and people that are born females belong on the same field of competition. I’ll await the hate.
Click to expand...

My daughter plays ice hockey, and it is very common for girls to play on boys' teams up to the 12 year old level. Most segregate beyond that, but as a goalie, my daughter could easily play for boys' teams through high school.

Moreso, however, while I agree that there are certainly sports where the advantage would be significant, this is really an issue without a problem. Like ph asks, where are the multitudes of trans kids taking over youth sports? Probably with all the North Carolina bathroom molesters. If you have a kid who is legitimately trying to come to terms with gender issues, they are likely in a fragile state socially as well. If sports makes that individual feel better about themselves, that is probably more important than the "purity" of the competition anyway.
 
I find it hilarious that the same people who have been called “sissies” as long as I’ve been alive are now supposedly threatening women’s sports.

And the people making these claims are the same people who mock women’s sports.
 
PhDeac said:
Who are these kids born with male genitalia who follow the rules and regulations to participate in girls sports who are dominating?

I’ll await the evidence.
Click to expand...

That’s a fair point, and the legislation itself is no doubt designed to further outrage and cultural divide and distract from real more pressing issues. But a simple google search reveals the dominance of Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood in hs track in Connecticut. You’re correct that there aren’t a multitude of examples at this point, but I think that may be largely due to the fact that there are fewer transgender athletes participating. Thankfully, especially in our youth, transgender people are much more readily accepted by their peers, which, at least viewing on a micro scale from my own teaching experiences, has led to more students feeling comfortable enough to be who they really are and live their lives accordingly. My concern is, as this becomes more prevalent, the participation of trans athletes in high school will become more prevalent as well, and there is an undeniable inherent physical advantage for those athletes that were born as males, especially those that don’t undergo hormone therapy. So at this point, there’s no easy answer to this question, as someone is going to be adversely affected, the minority of transgender athletes who aren’t allowed to compete against their gender or the majority of cisgender athletes who would be competing at a fundamental disadvantage. Add in the obvious difficulty of the journey of your average transgender student in high school, and the discrimination they already face on a daily basis, and it clouds the issue even more.
 
According to conservatives, the two biggest issues facing our country right now are cancel culture and this supposed widespread plague of transgender people playing women's sports. Whatever fires up the base, I guess.
 
Shooshmoo said:
According to conservatives, the two biggest issues facing our country right now are cancel culture and this supposed widespread plague of transgender people playing women's sports. Whatever fires up the base, I guess.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is on the same level as the Dr. Seuss outrage and it’s dumb as hell that it’s being discussed in congress.
 
mako1331 said:
That’s a fair point, and the legislation itself is no doubt designed to further outrage and cultural divide and distract from real more pressing issues. But a simple google search reveals the dominance of Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood in hs track in Connecticut. You’re correct that there aren’t a multitude of examples at this point, but I think that may be largely due to the fact that there are fewer transgender athletes participating. Thankfully, especially in our youth, transgender people are much more readily accepted by their peers, which, at least viewing on a micro scale from my own teaching experiences, has led to more students feeling comfortable enough to be who they really are and live their lives accordingly. My concern is, as this becomes more prevalent, the participation of trans athletes in high school will become more prevalent as well, and there is an undeniable inherent physical advantage for those athletes that were born as males, especially those that don’t undergo hormone therapy. So at this point, there’s no easy answer to this question, as someone is going to be adversely affected, the minority of transgender athletes who aren’t allowed to compete against their gender or the majority of cisgender athletes who would be competing at a fundamental disadvantage. Add in the obvious difficulty of the journey of your average transgender student in high school, and the discrimination they already face on a daily basis, and it clouds the issue even more.
Click to expand...

It’s an interesting topic for sure - i am 100% for equal rights for LGBTQ+ and we need to do better for sure (and yeah the bar was low but holy shit we’ve made progress in my lifetime). The sports one is tricky - for example i have a very good friend and former work colleague who is trans. Now a “she”, she competes heavily in triathalons and is ranked in the state in her age group. Kind of makes me go hmm. Like if i was ranked behind her i could see being a bit chuffed by it? Dunno, like i said it’s tricky...
 
To add: 100% agree there are about 120931029838014 more issues that our elected officials should be worrying about first.
 
A few cases in which transgender people, male to female, have had noted impact on their sports have prompted this.

Renee Richards was one of the first of these. A mediocre (at best) male tennis player, he transitioned to female around age 30 and she won decent money in women's pro tennis tournaments.

It is also intertwined with the issue of intersex athletes like Caster Semenya who compete as women. They have naturally high levels of testosterone that would otherwise be considered using performance enhancing drugs. So these people make the definitions of male and female athletes very difficult. How do sports define "female" for purposes of equitable competition?

Was it "fair" for 6-1 Renee Richards to compete as a woman after sex reassignment surgery and hormone therapy? She reached #20 in the world as a woman. Did she deprive someone who was born biologically female get deprived of a top 20 ranking and tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in earnings?
 
Mansion seems open to $11 minimum wage index for inflation and revisions to the filibuster rules. I think this is all stuff that the democratic caucus should pursue.
 
TownieDeac said:
$15 was the compromise
Click to expand...
Compromise with who?

That's kind of like saying Bernie who could never get a majority support of the Democratic Party electorate was the compromise candidate.
 
mako1331 said:
This is by far my least liberal position, but I’ve coached both men’s and women’s sports for about 2 decades now, and there’s no way that anyone can convince me that, especially at a high school level, people that are born males and people that are born females belong on the same field of competition. I’ll await the hate.
Click to expand...

If you are born with a penis you shouldn’t be playing women’s sports. Period.

It’s not a liberal position, it’s common sense, regardless what anyone says around here.

Happy Sunday y’all !
 
redwing42 said:
My daughter plays ice hockey, and it is very common for girls to play on boys' teams up to the 12 year old level. Most segregate beyond that, but as a goalie, my daughter could easily play for boys' teams through high school.

Moreso, however, while I agree that there are certainly sports where the advantage would be significant, this is really an issue without a problem. Like ph asks, where are the multitudes of trans kids taking over youth sports? Probably with all the North Carolina bathroom molesters. If you have a kid who is legitimately trying to come to terms with gender issues, they are likely in a fragile state socially as well. If sports makes that individual feel better about themselves, that is probably more important than the "purity" of the competition anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree with your first part. Goalie for an under 12 league is one thing. Good on your daughter..sounds like a good athlete!

The idea of girls getting the shit kicked out of them on the football field is terrifying. And I’m not talking about a kicker or punter.
 
TownieDeac said:
$15 was the compromise
Click to expand...

Thankfully, with or without this law, hundreds of millions of Americans live in state's whose minimum wage is already above the phased in program for the $15/hour law. The great irony is the Members who voted against this are from states where it is most needed. Republicans are giving Dems ammo to turn seats and states while still having time to fix this problem.

Add this to giving billionaires tax cuts while voting to cut off unemployment, money to open businesses and schools, no funding for vaccines.

If Dems can't win enough seats to safely control the Senate to change rules, everyone who gets a paycheck as a Dem should be fired.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top