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Thread: Infrastructure bill thread

  1. #21
    This seems like a pretty reasonable starting place for a bill, no? There's filler and fluff but I like a lot of the $$$ allocations. I haven't seen a ton of discussion about it, really, anywhere. What am I missing here?

  2. #22
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    Biden has been saying there will be negotiation. Giving Manchin 25% vs. 28% was always that could happen. As is a negotiating mantra, "you can't negotiate up". You have to ask for more than you want to have any chance of getting close to what you want.

    There is a bunch of unnecessary hand-wringing over this. If anything, it may box Manchin into a corner given the parliamentarian said infrastructure can be passed via reconciliation.

  3. #23
    Raise taxes a bit and play the Republican game and say the rest will pay for itself through economic growth from the investment

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL68 View Post
    25% has been pretty much known by insiders as what the final number was gonna be.
    Democracy, amirite?

  5. #25
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    Do the shovel-ready projects !

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGDeac View Post
    Raise taxes a bit and play the Republican game and say the rest will pay for itself through economic growth from the investment
    Good idea, but the reality is if they are close to the 15-18,000,000 jobs, the added tax revenues may pick up the lost revenue.

    Maybe the tax guys can give some depth to this, wouldn't a corporate minimum tax of 1-3% of revenues for companies having of nine figures or more make up for having a general corporate tax of 23-25%?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Good idea, but the reality is if they are close to the 15-18,000,000 jobs, the added tax revenues may pick up the lost revenue.

    Maybe the tax guys can give some depth to this, wouldn't a corporate minimum tax of 1-3% of revenues for companies having of nine figures or more make up for having a general corporate tax of 23-25%?
    You canít tax gross revenues and not take into account the cost of goods sold.

    I was looking at a return the other day for a company with $90MM gross revenue with $88MM in COGS.

    1 percent of $90M is $900K.

    $900K is a 45 percent tax on the after COGS revenue.
    Hungry

  8. #28
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    Please read what I said. $90M wouldn't qualify.

    That amount of "COGS" seems to be a bit of inflation, over paying executives or fiction. With that little margin of error, you don't stay in business if something bad happens.

    There should also be a law that if your company pays no taxes, they can't pay dividends or bonuses or stock options.

  9. #29
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    People are missing the real reason Republicans oppose the infrastructure bill is they know it will cost them elections. After the way Trump and state GOPs butchered the Covid response, the economy barely survived. If this bill is passed, the economy and jobs will keep growing massively. Biden and the Dems will get credit and re-elected.

    If it works and the GOP doesn't vote for it, it gives the Dems a huge hammer to use in 22 and 24. The moronic Trump hangover for Republicans is keeping them from joining in something they could take credit for in 22 & 24.

    Not only can the Dems use reconciliation, they should and every week they should "invite" Republicans to vote with them. If it passes with zero or less than a majority of Republicans, every project should be opened with, "This was funded by Democrats. Republicans stood against it. You wouldn't have a job if Republicans had their way."

    Sadly, Dems are too weak to do this.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Please read what I said. $90M wouldn't qualify.

    That amount of "COGS" seems to be a bit of inflation, over paying executives or fiction. With that little margin of error, you don't stay in business if something bad happens.

    There should also be a law that if your company pays no taxes, they can't pay dividends or bonuses or stock options.
    COGS doesn't include executive pay, which is a below the line SG&A expense.

    There are states that tax gross receipts, but it absolutely impacts low margin businesses (like grocery store companies for instance) more so than other businesses.

    And there shouldn't be any law restricting a company that complies with tax law. Most start-up growth companies attract talent with stock compensation.

    The last thing we need are poorly thought out populist approaches in this arena.
    Last edited by ChrisL68; 04-06-2021 at 04:19 PM.

  11. #31
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    READ what I said. Not many true startups bring in over $100M. Thus, they can attract people with stock compensation.

  12. #32
    You could easily have a greater of X% of revenue or business income tax system. We have all kinds of sales taxes at state and local levels, it would just be an equivalent of a type of national sales tax. Now there would need to be more sophisticated analysis to help determine what an appropriate revenue tax level would be, but I doubt it would be that dramatically harmful unless you started raising it way above 1% as an example.

    For the most part businesses would adapt and pass as much of that tax onto consumers anyway.

  13. #33
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    Maybe consumers can just reject companies who do that. Free market and such.

  14. #34
    i'm definitely not a tax lawyer or tax expert, but to me it does seem like a national gross revenue type of tax system would greatly simplify the entire system compared to the complexities of the income tax code. I know there are different ways to change the timing of revenue recognition, but overall it seems it would be a much better system, though I'm sure there are tons of flaws I just haven't thought completely through; no system is perfect.

    The thing that has always just bothered me in a simple manner is thinking of a regular middle class citizen with a W2, they are taxed primarily on the gross they make, even though there are costs associated with living. Individuals can't write off, all of housing, food, utilities, etc in terms of basic cost of living items to then only be taxed on the personal net income amount.

  15. #35
    As has been previously discussed the cogs difference is the major flaw with that. Iím not saying the corporate tax system we have now is fair but I think itís far more fair than a revenue tax which would crush low margin businesses.

    Iím getting way past what I can remember from my prior audit days but arenít there states that have some sort of margin tax? Thatís certainly not perfect either but itís getting warmer.

    Itís hard to analogize that well to a personal tax situation, itís apples and oranges.

  16. #36
    Iím pretty sure Iíve read this exact same sort of discussion between RJ and ChrisL ever since I was in college.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by 06deacon View Post
    As has been previously discussed the cogs difference is the major flaw with that. Iím not saying the corporate tax system we have now is fair but I think itís far more fair than a revenue tax which would crush low margin businesses.

    Iím getting way past what I can remember from my prior audit days but arenít there states that have some sort of margin tax? Thatís certainly not perfect either but itís getting warmer.

    Itís hard to analogize that well to a personal tax situation, itís apples and oranges.
    Texas has a gross receipts tax that includes an option to tax based on margin.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    But the main observation I came home with after this trip is this: America is a rich country that feels like a poor country. If you look at the investment in and the care put into infrastructure, common areas, and the experience of being in public in places like Singapore, Amsterdam, Paris, and Berlin and compare it to American cities, the difference is quite stark. Individual wealth in America is valued over collective wealth and it shows.
    That's the best way to describe the feeling I have every time I return to the USA. It's ... a shock to the system. The visible poverty and poor infrastructure are stunning, if you haven't experienced them on a regular basis in quite a long time (I'm only back once a year or so).

    The USA just doesn't "feel" like a peer country to somewhere like Germany.

  19. #39
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    The best way Iíve seen it explained is the US is a third world country with a Gucci bag.

  20. #40
    If the US is truly a third world country... why do you still reside here?

    One would think there is strong market demand for sociology professors in S. America and Europe.

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