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Biden to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/21

TownieDeac said:
Well there's state building and there's state building. I'd argue we know more about and have been a lot more successful with the American Project at home in these borders than we have been elsewhere in the world, for that almighty taxpayer ROI. Maybe it's a grand failure on both fronts, but whom do we bear the greatest responsibility for in the long run? For the good we've been able to do in the last century, we still have a very long way to go. What moral superiority do we have to go nation building around the world with the world's largest prison population, with millions of homeless and jobless and hungry, with unending medical and student and financial debt? Just our good name and a W in the last big war? Even our own democratic designs intended to make Congress authorize wars; we're just going to forever fight proxy and shadow wars behind keyboards and with private contractors now as the last bastion of Empire, democracy or public will be damned. That all ended when we went to an all-volunteer army, the vested stake we had as a nation in our foreign military affairs.
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People want to come to our country pretty badly. They drag their children across open territory patrolled by drug cartels. They float on doors through shark-infested waters. They pack themselves in poorly ventilated, dark shipping containers below the waterline of cargo ships. They cling to the landing gear of transport aircraft. I'd start with asking them, since they seem pretty committed to our ideas.
 
TownieDeac said:
I will put my posting record up against yours, for sure. I've been way more vocally critical of the Democratic party online than you have about the Republican party. Not that it matters, but I didn't vote for President in 2020 because DC went 93% blue and my vote meant jack shit.

The difference between you and me is I will absolutely call out the utter horseshit I see taking place within the leadership of the party I closest identify with. I think earlier in this thread you said something about holding your leaders to a higher standard, I think that should be the case regardless of what party they reside in.

I am perfectly happy blaming a bipartisan collection of warmongering ghouls for funneling a trillion dollars into a few companies for the last 20 years in the name of state building, chalking it up to a failure of execution rather than a failure of ideas, letting the media feast for a few weeks, and then forgetting the whole thing happened. I'm pretty sure in the spectrum of far right to far left, mine is more or less the only ideology not utterly captured by the concept of American exceptionalism and empire building supremacy, but let's go off about our records.
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Seconded.

JH, you and other blood thirsty conservatives of your ilk have no moral high ground on this issue. ZERO.
 
WokeandBroke said:
People want to come to our country pretty badly. They drag their children across open territory patrolled by drug cartels. They float on doors through shark-infested waters. They pack themselves in poorly ventilated, dark shipping containers below the waterline of cargo ships. They cling to the landing gear of transport aircraft. I'd start with asking them, since they seem pretty committed to our ideas.
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Largely these people come from nations bearing the brunt of the American Project in Central America over the 20th Century experiments in nation building. That their own failed states lead them to want to come to America is a testament to how much better we are at building opportunity in America than we are at trying to create it abroad via coups, wars, embargoes, etc.
 
what does White Guilt have to do with evaluating the investment in the World Police project?
 
dartsndeacs said:
The white guilt is strong in Townie
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It's not guilt, it is a nuanced view of American foreign policy and an understanding of how our external and internal actions impact other societies.

I know you're trolling, but to gloss over the horrible shit we've done as an imperial power over the last 150 years is pretty fucking basic. You paid way too much for your degree to be that simple minded.
 
BillBrasky said:
It's not guilt, it is a nuanced view of American foreign policy and an understanding of how our external and internal actions impact other societies.

I know you're trolling, but to gloss over the horrible shit we've done as an imperial power over the last 150 years is pretty fucking basic. You paid way too much for your degree to be that simple minded.
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keep in mind plama's geopolitical horizon is mr. worldwide
 
BillBrasky said:
It's not guilt, it is a nuanced view of American foreign policy and an understanding of how our external and internal actions impact other societies.

I know you're trolling, but to gloss over the horrible shit we've done as an imperial power over the last 150 years is pretty fucking basic. You paid way too much for your degree to be that simple minded.
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"We can't own people anymore and they're going to be citizens. Kind of."

"Well who are we going to exploit now?"
 
PhDeac said:
Good post. I'll add that part of this blank check is that we treat soldiers like gods and the military as an infallible institution. The US keeps screwing up in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or wherever we've been taking consistent Ls. But we don't blame the soldiers. We don't blame the generals. We don't blame the contractors. We don't blame the defense industry. We don't blame the military as whole. Nope. There's no accountability except in DC. We blame the President, maybe Congress, and some faceless bureaucrats who we can switch out every 2, 4, 6, 8 years. Don't ask questions. Keep increasing the budget. We'll just elect people who can do better next time.
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A woke military studying Critical Race Theory more thoroughly is the answer.
 
BillBrasky said:
It's not guilt, it is a nuanced view of American foreign policy and an understanding of how our external and internal actions impact other societies.

I know you're trolling, but to gloss over the horrible shit we've done as an imperial power over the last 150 years is pretty fucking basic. You paid way too much for your degree to be that simple minded.
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I’m surprised the America Sucks party can’t get their preferred candidates elected
 
yea you gotta put a positive spin on that same message

just spitballing here, something like, Make America Not Suck Again
 
My fancy degree lets me know if we weren’t out there on the world stage, China or Russia would be.
 
Fishbelt Deac said:
Speaking of blame: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/
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Good article. Some president was going to have to end it and take the political hit. Biden did it. We'll see how he does with this speech.

Biden was right, in the end, to bite the bullet and refuse to pass this conflict on to yet another president. His execution of this resolve, however, looks to be a tragic and shameful mess and will likely be a case study in policy schools for years to come. But there was no version of “Stop the forever war” that didn’t end with the fall of Kabul. We believed otherwise, as a nation, because we wanted to believe it. And because we had shopping to do and television to watch and arguments to be had on social media.
But before we move on, before we head back to the mall, before we resume posting memes, and before we return to bickering with each other about whether we should have to mask up at Starbucks, let us remember that this day came about for one reason, and one reason only.
Because it is what we wanted.
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WokeandBroke said:
People want to come to our country pretty badly. They drag their children across open territory patrolled by drug cartels. They float on doors through shark-infested waters. They pack themselves in poorly ventilated, dark shipping containers below the waterline of cargo ships. They cling to the landing gear of transport aircraft. I'd start with asking them, since they seem pretty committed to our ideas.
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do you think the United States had/has any role in creating the conditions that lead to people looking to leave?
 
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