• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Biden to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/21

With all due respect to Rep. Amash, what would have happened to the Germans if we had yanked our forces out of Germany under Willy Brandt? Or out of South Korea 20 years ago? Long term commitments suck, but sometimes its what you pay under hegemonic stability theory.
 
centerdeac said:
With all due respect to Rep. Amash, what would have happened to the Germans if we had yanked our forces out of Germany under Willy Brandt? Or out of South Korea 20 years ago? Long term commitments suck, but sometimes its what you pay under hegemonic stability theory.
Click to expand...

Germany and South Korea 20 years ago are very different situations from Afghanistan. Germany was an established, traditional nation-state on the front lines of the Cold War and Soviet territory, so defending it long-term certainly made sense. South Korea 20 years ago was also a well-established nation-state with a powerful military. Afghanistan is basically some lines on a map with different tribes that are often in conflict, and a long history of defeating superior invading forces (such as British, Soviet, and now American). I think his point is that if you spend that much money and effort for 20 years and it all falls apart in about a week it was never going to work to begin with. On that point I think he's been proven to be exactly right.
 
South Korea falls in 10 days without U.S. forces and nuclear security guarantee.
 
centerdeac said:
South Korea falls in 10 days without U.S. forces and nuclear security guarantee.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge there’s never been a plan to eventually leave South Korea and let them fend for themselves. If there was, South Korea as a nation-state is more able to fulfill that obligation than Afghanistan.
 
centerdeac said:
South Korea falls in 10 days without U.S. forces and nuclear security guarantee.
Click to expand...

From what I've read that's very doubtful, unless you're saying that China would be a part of the invasion. And even if it were true it doesn't negate that there are major differences between the historical situations in South Korea and Afghanistan.
 
Trump had such a vision. Biden stopped the five times increase in ROK funds. military times has noted that only U.S. troops and U.S. advanced weapns had withheld the North.
 
[Biden]"been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades." - (Bipartisan) SecDef Bob Gates.

Make that five decades, Bob.

Complete and utter debacle. Ten days ago we had less than 4,000 troops whose presence (we know discover, alone) kept the peace for an entire country. No US Combat Deaths in over a year.

A week later, we will have twice that many and the entire country descending into chaos.

For those of you who don't blame the current circumstance (versus the one we had a month ago) on Biden...who? This is indefensible.
 
centerdeac said:
Trump had such a vision. Biden stopped the five times increase in ROK funds. military times has noted that only U.S. troops and U.S. advanced weapns had withheld the North.
Click to expand...

Trump's only vision was to syphon off billions more American tax dollars to his friends who are in the military industrial complex. He was president for four years and didn't pull out after claiming he would (wow another populist inspired lie) so that us taxpayers could keep paying for overpriced munitions and supplies from his donors and business partners.

A majority of the money we spent on this boondoggle was for American made weapons and supplies, and kickbacks to corrupt actors in Afghanistan and at home. We never truly tried to nation build. It was a 20 year scam perpetrated by the worst elements of our society.

As the point about Afghan refugees, I 100% agree. I would let in anybody who applies. It is the least we can do after turning their homeland into a banana republic for our weapons makers and military contractors. And if a few of them are bad guys who want to harm America, so be it. Nobody can say we won't deserve it. But we owe refuge to every life we've destroyed in Afghanistan over the last 20 years.
 
Last edited:
centerdeac said:
South Korea falls in 10 days without U.S. forces and nuclear security guarantee.
Click to expand...

The difference is that a majority of South Koreans want us there, most Afghans don't. Once you leave the fiefdom that is Kabul, the rest of the nation hates us. This was literally ALWAYS going to happen.

We've fucked this occupation since Day 1 and hung around 15 years longer than we needed to (although we really we never should have invaded, thanks Republicans) in order to help millionaires become billionaires.
 
 
WokeandBroke said:
[Biden]"been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades." - (Bipartisan) SecDef Bob Gates.

Make that five decades, Bob.

Complete and utter debacle. Ten days ago we had less than 4,000 troops whose presence (we know discover, alone) kept the peace for an entire country. No US Combat Deaths in over a year.

A week later, we will have twice that many and the entire country descending into chaos.

For those of you who don't blame the current circumstance (versus the one we had a month ago) on Biden...who? This is indefensible.
Click to expand...

Do you really think things would be different under Trump? Trump set a May withdrawal, but after the election wanted to get the military to move out all troops by 1/20. Obviously the Biden administration has blame as to what is occurring, but in our elections we basically have a binary choice. Do you honestly think if Trump were still president this same reaction wouldn't be occurring as we remove American troops?
 
dcnelso said:
Do you really think things would be different under Trump? Trump set a May withdrawal, but after the election wanted to get the military to move out all troops by 1/20. Obviously the Biden administration has blame as to what is occurring, but in our elections we basically have a binary choice. Do you honestly think if Trump were still president this same reaction wouldn't be occurring as we remove American troops?
Click to expand...

This USA Today article discusses Trump's claims that things would have been handled better if he were still in charge.

Link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-afghanistan-withdrawal-much-172709628.html
 
And for those monday morning (sunday evening?) quarterbacks claiming this result was inevitable, please revisit Biden's comments from just over a month ago:

 
dcnelso said:
Do you really think things would be different under Trump? Trump set a May withdrawal, but after the election wanted to get the military to move out all troops by 1/20. Obviously the Biden administration has blame as to what is occurring, but in our elections we basically have a binary choice. Do you honestly think if Trump were still president this same reaction wouldn't be occurring as we remove American troops?
Click to expand...

I can't believe any sentient person would have phased the withdrawal as:
1. Surrender positive control of the air base first.
2. Withdraw sufficient security forces ahead of diplomatic personnel/civilians.

This was so stupid I still can't believe Biden did it. I can't conceive of anyone else---anyone---being this stupid. Jimmy Carter wouldn't have done this.

We're sending more(!) troops in to facilitate the withdrawal, after giving up control of the evacuation corridors. The diplomats could have driven themselves to the airport two weeks ago. Now? We're having to insert combat troops into the theater to extract our people from a needlessly chaotic situation. The video from the airport is surreal. I think Baron Trump would have done a better job than this.
 
WokeandBroke said:
I can't believe any sentient person would have phased the withdrawal as:
1. Surrender positive control of the air base first.
2. Withdraw sufficient security forces ahead of diplomatic personnel/civilians.

This was so stupid I still can't believe Biden did it. I can't conceive of anyone else---anyone---being this stupid. Jimmy Carter wouldn't have done this.

We're sending more(!) troops in to facilitate the withdrawal, after giving up control of the evacuation corridors. The diplomats could have driven themselves to the airport two weeks ago. Now? We're having to insert combat troops into the theater to extract our people from a needlessly chaotic situation. The video from the airport is surreal. I think Baron Trump would have done a better job than this.
Click to expand...

Read the USA Today article. A lot of former military officers and officials disagree with you regarding Trump.
 
Democrats keep having to clean up Republican created messes and then get blamed for the clean up being messy.
 
Highland Deac said:
Read the USA Today article. A lot of former military officers and officials disagree with you regarding Trump.
Click to expand...

Do you remember what happened when Obama pulled out of Iraq? We don't really have to speculate what Trump would do. We watched it happen in real time. He is a man of a 1,000 faults but being insufficiently decisive when it comes to applying force is about the only shortcoming he lacks. This failure is 100% on Biden.

The Secretary of State is on Twitter begging the Taliban to spare the lives of civilians and to offer safe passage to foreign citizens.

This isn't about Trump at all. We were getting out of Afghanistan no matter who won the election. It's how we're getting out (or more specifically, how we failed to get everyone safely out) that's the issue. Unforced error that will cost innocent lives needlessly.
 
birdman said:
Democrats keep having to clean up Republican created messes and then get blamed for the clean up being messy.
Click to expand...

Why was there a single American out of uniform left at the embassy when the military withdrawal started? Please don't defend this.
 
Fortunately, it looks like the U.S. forces have taken control of the airport and will get the Americans out. That's the only important thing right now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So does Biden get credit for securing the airport?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top