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Biden to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/21

WokeandBroke said:
Do you remember what happened when Obama pulled out of Iraq? We don't really have to speculate what Trump would do. We watched it happen in real time. He is a man of a 1,000 faults but being insufficiently decisive when it comes to applying force is about the only shortcoming he lacks. This failure is 100% on Biden.

The Secretary of State is on Twitter begging the Taliban to spare the lives of civilians and to offer safe passage to foreign citizens.

This isn't about Trump at all. We were getting out of Afghanistan no matter who won the election. It's how we're getting out (or more specifically, how we failed to get everyone safely out) that's the issue. Unforced error that will cost innocent lives needlessly.
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You obviously didn't read the article, as one former military official agreed with you that Trump would have resorted to massive bombing, but he also pointed out that it wouldn't have worked and the Taliban would still have overrun the country, and that Trump would have done the bombing only to limit his PR damage back home. And I seriously doubt that Trump would have done any better than Biden at getting our personnel or Afghan civilians out either. This is a guy who opposes immigration from Third World countries, and his "rapid" response to the Puerto Rican hurricane and Texas hurricanes and other natural disasters doesn't exactly give one confidence that he would have handled this any better.

And for what it's worth, I have already agreed that Biden deserves blame for not getting the Afghans who supported us out more quickly and US personnel. But that's a different issue from blaming the rapid and total collapse of the Afghan government and military on Biden. No one could have stopped that, yet I get the sense that many conservatives are going to try and blame everything on Biden.
 
WokeandBroke said:
It was secure for the previous 20 years, so that's a hard no.
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So why does he get blame for it not being secure for a few days? Did he say “fuck the airport” or did the troops on the ground fuck up and cede ground to the Taliban? Doesn’t he rely on reports from the ground that apparently said the Taliban was months away from doing what they did now?
 
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WokeandBroke said:
Why was there a single American out of uniform left at the embassy when the military withdrawal started? Please don't defend this.
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Because George Bush and Dick Cheney set up an invasion and occupation in 2001/2002 to try and distract from the fact that they ignored the intelligence that bin Laden was determined to attack with in the United States. Biden is stuck clean up their mess 20 years later and it’s fucking messy.
 
HuskyDeac said:
Devastating for a lot of Afghanis but when 20 years worth of "nation building" falls apart in a couple months, it had no chance of succeeding anyway.
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this is pretty much the take away. We had to pull the band aid off at some point.
 
Highland Deac said:
You obviously didn't read the article, as one former military official agreed with you that Trump would have resorted to massive bombing, but he also pointed out that it wouldn't have worked and the Taliban would still have overrun the country, and that Trump would have done the bombing only to limit his PR damage back home. And I seriously doubt that Trump would have done any better than Biden at getting our personnel or Afghan civilians out either. This is a guy who opposes immigration from Third World countries, and his "rapid" response to the Puerto Rican hurricane and Texas hurricanes and other natural disasters doesn't exactly give one confidence that he would have handled this any better.

And for what it's worth, I have already agreed that Biden deserves blame for not getting the Afghans who supported us out more quickly and US personnel. But that's a different issue from blaming the rapid and total collapse of the Afghan government and military on Biden. No one could have stopped that, yet I get the sense that many conservatives are going to try and blame everything on Biden.
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I am referring only to the cluster of this withdrawal. Afghanistan was going to collapse no matter who the President was, but leaving our people exposed was grossly incompetent and totally avoidable. The joint statement from State/Defense said there are still thousands of Americans awaiting evacuation. Incomprehensibly stupid.
 
WokeandBroke said:
I am referring only to the cluster of this withdrawal. Afghanistan was going to collapse no matter who the President was, but leaving our people exposed was grossly incompetent and totally avoidable. The joint statement from State/Defense said there are still thousands of Americans awaiting evacuation. Incomprehensibly stupid.
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If only Biden had gone to a charter school.
 
For future reference.

 
birdman said:
If only Biden had gone to a charter school.
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Thousands of your countrymen are awaiting rescue from a totally preventable circumstance while the Secretary of State is begging the Taliban for mercy on Twitter. Grow up.
 
So we gave them a 20 year time out like a naughty child for 9/11.
 
Thousands of your countrymen are dying from a totally preventable disease while the President is begging them not to be rubes on Twitter. Grow up.
 
WokeandBroke said:
Thousands of your countrymen are awaiting rescue from a totally preventable circumstance while the Secretary of State is begging the Taliban for mercy on Twitter. Grow up.
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War is messy. I’d suggest republicans take note that it’s messy and people die because it’s a very unpredictable by nature, rather than blame the current president for the proximate problem. If you don’t want people to die in war zones, support a party, any party, that doesn’t run off to war at every possible opportunity.
 
WokeandBroke said:
I am referring only to the cluster of this withdrawal. Afghanistan was going to collapse no matter who the President was, but leaving our people exposed was grossly incompetent and totally avoidable. The joint statement from State/Defense said there are still thousands of Americans awaiting evacuation. Incomprehensibly stupid.
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You want to make a bet that the Americans get out or not? If I win your kids have to go to public school so they can get an actual education.

The Taliban doesn't want to spend another 20 years being bombed back into their caves. The Americans will get out and the Taliban will be happy to see them go. Killing hundreds of Americans as they are trying to leave so that you can control the country would be incredibly stupid. I listen to a daily BBC News roundup and the Taliban had a spokesmen on talking about how they want to cooperate with UN aid workers and they want a peaceful transition in Kabul. They also want international recognition, which they will not receive if they harm oreign nationals trying to leave. They've learned their lesson about poking the bear.

Now the issue about Afghans who have helped us being left behind is the real tragedy, and guess which party is holding up their visas in Congress? So take your crocodile tears and shove them up your ass you self righteous fuck. If you're not calling Burr and Tillis and telling them to ease restrictions on Afghani refugees, then its you who has blood on your hands.
 
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why not just give the guns to the women to fight to protect their rights if there's really only like 50k taliban fighters.
 
stugotz said:
why not just give the guns to the women to fight to protect their rights if there's really only like 50k taliban fighters.
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Given the pathetic performance of the Afghan military that actually makes sense - Afghan women using the weapons we gave their military would almost certainly have put up a far better and stronger fight than their armed forces did. Unfortunately it's too late to try that now.
 
Keep this in mind. Military intelligence is an oxymoron. You now have a present example to recall for future reference.

Anyone that failed to expect this ending hasn't been paying attention.

Once again, when you point a finger of blame at someone, three of your fingers are pointing at you.
 
birdman said:
War is messy. I’d suggest republicans take note that it’s messy and people die because it’s a very unpredictable by nature, rather than blame the current president for the proximate problem. If you don’t want people to die in war zones, support a party, any party, that doesn’t run off to war at every possible opportunity.
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War is predictably messy with huge costs and little upside aside from a few people getting rich.
 
PhDeac said:
War is predictably messy with huge costs and little upside aside from a few people getting rich.
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In this case it was more just making people feel better about 9/11
 
BillBrasky said:
You want to make a bet that the Americans get out or not? If I win your kids have to go to public school so they can get an actual education.

The Taliban doesn't want to spend another 20 years being bombed back into their caves. The Americans will get out and the Taliban will be happy to see them go. Killing hundreds of Americans as they are trying to leave so that you can control the country would be incredibly stupid. I listen to a daily BBC News roundup and the Taliban had a spokesmen on talking about how they want to cooperate with UN aid workers and they want a peaceful transition in Kabul. They also want international recognition, which they will not receive if they harm oreign nationals trying to leave. They've learned their lesson about poking the bear.

Now the issue about Afghans who have helped us being left behind is the real tragedy, and guess which party is holding up their visas in Congress? So take your crocodile tears and shove them up your ass you self righteous fuck. If you're not calling Burr and Tillis and telling them to ease restrictions on Afghani refugees, then its you who has blood on your hands.
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What he said.
 
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