• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Do You Live In A Political Bubble?

DeaconSig said:
So did the NC legislature solve the problem or not? You can't say its an issue that should be resolved by the current government and then also claim a prior legislature fixed the problem.
Click to expand...

In 2011, Senator Berger's Senate passed the bill that lifted the cap on Charters. Because of that action, North Carolina is now one of the States that doesn't have a cap (Don't worry, DC, New York, California and Massachusetts still have theirs).

We have elections every other year, and funding decisions annually. The Dems and NCAE work to erode gains in charter funding and choices. If you don't believe me, read their "Oppositions" straight from their issue paper on the subject:

 The use of school construction funds from the lottery to build charter schools. Already
strapped school systems cannot afford to absorb the loss of lottery funding.
 Elimination of the cap without proper and sufficient oversight.
 Conversion of private schools to public charter schools.

So they want to keep resources, oppose competition and reduce choice for parents. Why?
 
Expansion of charters is an issue that majorities of Pubs, Hispanic Democrats and Black Democrats are in favor of. The opposition is led by white Democrats and the teacher's union.

Tell me why your subset of your party is against this (free to the consumer) educational choice.
 
Are we also funding underfunded public schools or letting them continue to rot?
 
 
Right so what’s happening with those schools? Keep funding as-is, shut them down, what?
 
ok jh. you've added expanding charter schools to tax cuts for the rich and making abortions difficult to get

what else?
 
 
also charter schools are constantly holding private fund raisers, so those figures are disingenuous
 
When market forces are fucking up healthcare and housing, try education!
 
Milhouse said:
ok jh. you've added expanding charter schools to tax cuts for the rich and making abortions difficult to get

what else?
Click to expand...

ghfmpphnhsy.jpeg
 
WokeandBroke said:
My answer involves real world stuff (which is individual to our family and thus not for this message board), so check your inbox.
Click to expand...

I'll check it out and I respect the sensitivity of the matter

but my question is also related to your interest in charter schools as a matter of public policy, not necessarily your specific family circumstances
 
All you say may be true, but when the quality of your education is related -- indirectly or directly -- to your income and wealth, or to that of those around you, then that is a very flawed system if you believe at some level that high-quality education is a human right, or at least a goal of an advanced society
 
at its core, the disconnect between jh and me, I believe, comes down to an understanding of the role of the individual, the family, and the state in society -- at the end of the day, I put a higher emphasis on the collective responsibility and jh on the individual

we can discuss til the cows come home, but I don't think we'll move past this foundational difference in values
 
I wouldn’t call an extended temper tantrum against Brown v. Board good faith policies.

The whole purpose of school choice is to destabilize public schools and use competition to build discontent for public education in order to grow support for diverting taxpayer money to corporate and religious entities to start charter and private schools. The effect is under resourcing neighborhood schools thus forcing parents to put more effort and resources into making sure their child gets a good education (such as providing transportation and meals and researching schools).

Conservatives and neoliberals have largely succeeded in creating a system of winners and losers in education and a massive government bureaucracy and private industry to fix the problem competition created. Fewer and fewer taxpayer dollars go to teachers and student resources in the classroom. More and more funds to go bureaucrats and education firms and any rando who wants to start a private school like the anti-vax school in Miami. Those randos often seek to create religious or ideological bubbles that jhmd says he’s against. And that’s another way to segregate society.

Now I’m sure jhmd thinks he’s making a good faith argument to help kids but it’s clear that he’s a true believer who has fallen for this nonsense.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I'll check it out and I respect the sensitivity of the matter

but my question is also related to your interest in charter schools as a matter of public policy, not necessarily your specific family circumstances
Click to expand...

Actors (people and institutions) benefit from the presence of competition. The school system is built for the students. Why are students lining up to go to Charters? Charters don't have guaranteed funding, they have to compete for student's attention. They are winning that competition by being nimble and adaptive, and leveraging the supplemental contributions that they get from parents who choose to involve themselves in schools that really value their voices. That is clearly good for the charter school experience: attendance is a self-selecting group of people who are willing to separately invest in their child's education, at no out of pocket costs to the students. I far prefer this approach to vouchers, which get diverted to schools that aren't free and open to anyone who applies. Charters are the right balance.

Kids going to charters is also good for the traditional public schools they leave. Our school has 500 students that would otherwise be in an existing public school, which should decrease class size in the places they leave. I also don't mind that when students leave, the traditional school loses funding. While I am sure that is painful in part, I am more concerned about a school that doesn't have an incentive to compete for its students because they are not in competition for their funding. Nobody says they have to lose the competition.
 
Milhouse said:
also charter schools are constantly holding private fund raisers, so those figures are disingenuous
Click to expand...

It's worth pointing out that the PTA at many public schools does exactly the same. Whitaker Elementary in Buena Vista doesn't have top notch tech because of public funding.
 
WokeandBroke said:
Kids going to charters is also good for the traditional public schools they leave. Our school has 500 students that would otherwise be in an existing public school, which should decrease class size in the places they leave. I also don't mind that when students leave, the traditional school loses funding. While I am sure that is painful in part, I am more concerned about a school that doesn't have an incentive to compete for its students because they are not in competition for their funding. Nobody says they have to lose the competition.
Click to expand...

decrease in students means decrease in funding, so it almost certainly doesn't mean smaller class sizes -- just fewer classes

as to competition, I won't speak too broadly as I do not know, but here in Chicago, charter schools do not have a mandate to educate some of the most challenging students and are much quicker to kick out challenging kids, so it's not exactly a fair competition in that respect

again, it all comes down to your values and priorities -- having the highest ceiling available to those well-off/savvy/lucky/thoughtful enough to pursue it or raise the floor for the masses -- perhaps it does not need to be so zero-sum, but the reality of the situation and how we choose to spend our resources as a society is that there is a hefty zero-sum component
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top