• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Who will pay Wake Forest's players?

WF's record has sucked in basketball since 2010. From a LOWF perspective, it's because WF simply cannot compete on a higher level in basketball any more. To me, that's BS. There are so many other programs with resources that are similar to WF that have excelled in basketball (including recent champ Baylor) that the more likely explanation is that WF's last 3 basketball hires (yes, I'm including Dino) were simply incompetent. With that said, I'm all in on Forbes. Liked him since Day 1, and like him even more now. If Forbes fails at WF (which I don't see happening), then a reassessment may be required.

No, I think you are reading too much into this. People are correctly disagreeing with the following bolded statements because they are simply not true - WF has *not* always remained competitive in all sports

The correct tier for WF basketball is definitely above Clemson/VT/Miami/BC. Hopefully Forbes has us looking down on those programs, at a minimum, very soon. UVA and FSU are currently punching above their historical weight because they have hired once in a generation coaches; would be even better if Forbes can perform similarly

This is the type of thing that always gets LOWF rubes worked up into a frenzy. WF is not competing with and never has competed with tOSU or Bama for football players. The same types of players that those schools have recruited will still go to those schools now that new NIL rules are in place. Similarly, the same players that WF has recruited in every sport will still want to go to WF. If two years from now, there is a report that WF is the worst among Power V schools in NIL generating operating opportunities, then people can freak out, but don't see that happening. WF always finds a way to more than keep pace in ways to compete with the vast majority of Power V programs in every sport, and to attract the athletes to compete. That is not changing because local Columbus businesses are trying to throw cash to tOSU football players.

This post should just be linked by a bot every time somebody uses the phrase "LOWF".

This is what wake has always done and why we've stayed competitive in a group of conferences with school enrollments and endowments many times our own.
 
Of course you're right, but during that time, we've significantly improved facilities, sports science/nutrition, etc. We aren't at a competitive disadvantage in basketball, and hopefully NIL will have no effect (or a positive effect) on that.

So what? We've done all that and we still fucking suck. All that means is that we've spent a lot of money on things that don't mean jack shit. If your position is that, now that those things are already in place, we can take that money and use it to pay players then I can get behind that. But thinking that somehow we're going to navigate the new landscape to success despite all of its intrinsic obstacles for a school our size, when our navigation of the current landscape has been an abject failure for over a decade, is asinine.
 
So what? We've done all that and we still fucking suck. All that means is that we've spent a lot of money on things that don't mean jack shit. If your position is that, now that those things are already in place, we can take that money and use it to pay players then I can get behind that. But thinking that somehow we're going to navigate the new landscape to success despite all of its intrinsic obstacles for a school our size, when our navigation of the current landscape has been an abject failure for over a decade, is asinine.

I believe the only competitive disadvantage we have had in basketball over the past decade+ has been our coaches. I think the things we have spent money on have been the right things - but crappy coaches far outweigh all other factors. With a good coach, and good recruiting, those other things will help us get over the hump.
 
I believe the only competitive disadvantage we have had in basketball over the past decade+ has been our coaches. I think the things we have spent money on have been the right things - but crappy coaches far outweigh all other factors. With a good coach, and good recruiting, those other things will help us get over the hump.

Agreed. If you take that infrastructure and add top tier coaches, you get perennial top 5 programs (men's soccer, men's tennis, women's golf).
 
So what? We've done all that and we still fucking suck. All that means is that we've spent a lot of money on things that don't mean jack shit. If your position is that, now that those things are already in place, we can take that money and use it to pay players then I can get behind that. But thinking that somehow we're going to navigate the new landscape to success despite all of its intrinsic obstacles for a school our size, when our navigation of the current landscape has been an abject failure for over a decade, is asinine.

Are you always Negative Nancy about everything? You even find a way to somehow find a negative with WF's Chris Paul being the dominant post-season NBA player this year. Lighten up.

Between basketball and football, football should be the sport where WF finds itself at a bigger disadvantage as compared to the rest of the conference with the possible exception of Syracuse and Duke. Even so, WF is in the top half of the the conference in winning percentage over the past five years. Having a competent coach is the biggest factor, but facilities help as well. 15 years ago, when facility upgrades were identified as a leading factor in program success, the consensus was that WF couldn't keep up in the facilities race. That was wrong.

Now, that new NLI rules are in place, the same Chicken Littles are getting wound up claiming this is the death of WF Sports. Not even close to accurate. Amazing how our "fans" seem to be the ones most unaware of how appealing WF is and the level of popularity that WF has a destination for rising prospective student college athletes. Live in the DC area, I have kids in HS and just out of HS that are active in sports and have knowledge of recruiting insights among that group. WF is always on the short list of schools that elite HS athletes in football, baseball, basketball, soccer consider in this area. The self-loathing here is just so misplaced.
 
Pilchard I agree strongly with you that this board got their ideal choice for a head coach. It won't work.

When it doesn't, I appreciate your concession that nothing can work without us evaluating ourselves. Our home stadium is so bad that no one can win. Can't recruit that key 3rd-6th player to that place.

Need it all to win in this era. Stadium, coach, administration. All have to be A++++ Any weak link and you are sunk. We have a big giant clunker of a wink link and it's a 30 year albatross Orange megaplex built for tractor pulls.

So I appreciate your concession that if Forbes fails, you will join me in saying: It's not the Coach. It's us. We suck because we choose to suck.
 
IMO - this is the beginning of the end for Wake being competitive in basketball and football.
 
Even so, WF is in the top half of the the conference in winning percentage over the past five years.

*all games included; WF is 17-5 against non-ACC competition, including 0-2 against ranked non-ACC teams (ND twice)

in ACC play only, WF is 17-22 for the 10th-best winning percentage over that time
 
People are glossing over that there is not an infinite amount of money to dump into college sports. Every tOSU donor that sends $10k to the athlete endorsement fund is going to send $10k less to tOSU. Imagine if 25% of the money that fills the coffers of athletic departments to pay coaches salaries and fund cryogenic tubes goes right into players pockets. The landscape is going to shift in unexpected ways.
 
*all games included; WF is 17-5 against non-ACC competition, including 0-2 against ranked non-ACC teams (ND twice)

in ACC play only, WF is 17-22 for the 10th-best winning percentage over that time

That counts WF's win over UNC in 2019 as a non-ACC win. That was a win over an ACC team. Counting that win WF is 18-22 over the last 5 seasons.

Here are the ACC records against other ACC teams from the 2016 season forward:

Clemson 34-2
Miami 27-16
VT 24-18
Pitt 23-20
NC State 22-20
WF 18-22
L'ville 19-23
BC 19-23
UVA 18-24
GT 18-23
FSU 17-23
UNC 18-25
Cuse 13-29
Duke 11-31

Those records count WF win over UNC in 2019, and Clemson's wins over VT, Miami, Pitt and UVA in the ACCCG which is fair given that WF plays (and loses to) Clemson each year and these other teams do not. WF is in the group of 3 teams that are 6,7,8 in the conference at 4 games under .500. FWIW, WF is one game over .500 against ACC schools other Clemson over the last 5 seasons.
 
The correct answer is another ogboards.com fundraiser (assuming dv7 has the time to organize between his busy schedule and fielding all of the angry calls from Dino Gaudio).

Next question.
 
That counts WF's win over UNC in 2019 as a non-ACC win. That was a win over an ACC team. Counting that win WF is 18-22 over the last 5 seasons.

Here are the ACC records against other ACC teams from the 2016 season forward:

Clemson 34-2
Miami 27-16
VT 24-18
Pitt 23-20
NC State 22-20
WF 18-22
L'ville 19-23
BC 19-23
UVA 18-24
GT 18-23
FSU 17-23
UNC 18-25
Cuse 13-29
Duke 11-31

Those records count WF win over UNC in 2019, and Clemson's wins over VT, Miami, Pitt and UVA in the ACCCG which is fair given that WF plays (and loses to) Clemson each year and these other teams do not. WF is in the group of 3 teams that are 6,7,8 in the conference at 4 games under .500. FWIW, WF is one game over .500 against ACC schools other Clemson over the last 5 seasons.

including ACCCG losses to Clemson is an unfair punishment for those that won their division

if we're talking about strength of schedule within the ACC, the two worst teams in the ACC over the past 5 years, by a pretty fair margin, are Duke and Syracuse, and WF plays both every year

if we're comparing WF to other teams within the ACC, but including FSU's annual game against the Gators and GT's against UGA and counting that the same as WF-Army (from the OOC schedules which you correctly have ripped, on this board), that is more than a little disingenuous

to the larger point, though, the Grobe/Clawson era representing the last 20 years are the glory years of WF football - and in those 20 years we have 3 winning records in ACC play (4 if you want to count the UNC non-con game as an ACC game)
 
Kentucky has won three out of four against Wake's peer, Louisville, btw.

Kentucky.
 
I really don't see the logic in arguing that current results predict future results when the landscape is shifting entirely. It is a massive assumption to assume that schools will find ways to get players the exact same way they've always done. The floodgates are opening. What currently was being done in secrecy by a few (except for FBI wiretaps and occassional NCAA investigation) is going to be done publicly by many. Nebraska was good at football and didn't sustain it. Oregon was a nobody and figured out a new landscape.
 
I am in for sure. Need teammates here. A one man show won’t work.

I think we should target men’s basketball. We have the resources to make a real difference there unlike football.

I agree with this 100%. A lot easier to fund a dozen players than 90.

I know AnonymousDeac is deep into the NFT space, and has been very vocal on social media that players can make a good bit of money marketing themselves that way as well. While some may not be able to contribute actual $ to the cause, others may be able to lend techical expertise or consulting to help players tap into the various revenue streams.
 
The road to unintended consequences is paved with good intents.

Just like the Ed O'Bannon lawsuit, this is not going to end up the way most people want. Two decades ago O'Bannon wanted himself (and other student athletes) to be paid for using their image in video games. He won the lawsuit, but instead of getting paid, EA sports just shut down all college video games.

By opening up NIL reimbursement without any regulation, college football and basketball will go "wild west" for a few years, and then they'll eventually separate from schools and become semi-pro leagues that no one cares about. Wake, and essentially all D1 schools, will ride this out for a few years, and then eventually football and basketball will separate from the schools. College soccer, baseball, and other sports will gain popularity, and then about 1-2 decades after that football and basketball will want to get back in to the scholastic sports competition. The athletes, understandably, want to get paid, but this will eventually result in college football and basketball becoming obsolete.

Not all models work in a capitalist market.

ITT, US Soccer fan still insists soccer will become more popular than football/basketball in this country.
 
Pilchard I agree strongly with you that this board got their ideal choice for a head coach. It won't work.

When it doesn't, I appreciate your concession that nothing can work without us evaluating ourselves. Our home stadium is so bad that no one can win. Can't recruit that key 3rd-6th player to that place.

Need it all to win in this era. Stadium, coach, administration. All have to be A++++ Any weak link and you are sunk. We have a big giant clunker of a wink link and it's a 30 year albatross Orange megaplex built for tractor pulls.

So I appreciate your concession that if Forbes fails, you will join me in saying: It's not the Coach. It's us. We suck because we choose to suck.
Donald Ross i can tell you in talking to recruits and people connected to AAU ball that 98% of recruits really don’t care about a teams stadium and it NEVER factors in there decision where to go to school. i promise you its all show. please just STFU about the stadium crap, its old and tiring and you sound like a clown.
 
Donald Ross i can tell you in talking to recruits and people connected to AAU ball that 98% of recruits really don’t care about a teams stadium and it NEVER factors in there decision where to go to school. i promise you its all show. please just STFU about the stadium crap, its old and tiring and you sound like a clown.

I agree with a lot of what donald ross says, but don’t quite understand the obsession with the coliseum. Certainly it would’ve been nice to have an on campus arena, but it’s not going to hold us back in recruiting. Maybe we have a few less students at the Joel when we’re losing, but if the team is winning, they will come.

More important than the stadium is the practice and locker facilities. That’s where the athletes are for the majority of their time with teammates and coaches putting in work. That’s where the recruits tour the program. The Shah Complex is the home of Wake Forest Basketball, not the Joel. The coliseum is home for Wake basketball fans and donors. That’s what we get to see and where everything comes together.

I don’t know where things are as far as the locker room and lounge for football and basketball, but they need to be completed asap so the focus can shift on “Deaconizing” the Joel AND putting more money in the endowment so there is room for error if/when things get tough financially. I feel like if they announce plans for renovations after a successful 21-22 season, there would be a lot of momentum and excitement in the fan base to fund an upgraded Joel Coliseum.
 
I am not shutting up about the Stadium. Ever.

Atmosphere is almost always a factor in recruiting decisions. We don’t have it.

It seems the only debate is how much the stadium is hurting us. To which the obvious answer is replace it. If it’s 1% bad, that’s too much.
 
I am not shutting up about the Stadium. Ever.

Atmosphere is almost always a factor in recruiting decisions. We don’t have it.

It seems the only debate is how much the stadium is hurting us. To which the obvious answer is replace it. If it’s 1% bad, that’s too much.

Wouldn't your time be better spent convincing U of Cincy administrators to either shrink the size of Fifth Third Arena (one of the dumbest names ever) from its current 12,000 seat capacity or build a new teeny arena that only you and Wes Miller would have access to?
 
Back
Top