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Mt. Tabor High Shooting

19deac92 said:
What is your evidence that guns are easier to access now than they otherwise were 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago?
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I don't have any specific evidence to point to. If you have evidence to support the opposite I'd love to read it.

I'm basing my opinion, in part, on legal rulings in the last 50, 30, 20, 10 years that permit and even encourage people to purchase and carry firearms, in some places without background checks or carry licenses.

It would surprise me a great deal to learn that firearms were more easily accessible in the past than they are now.
 
19deac92 said:
What is your evidence that guns are easier to access now than they otherwise were 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago?
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The number of guns per capita in the US has doubled in the past 50 years.
 
19deac92 said:
Respectfully, your logic makes no sense, and I reject your premise. I own more firearms than there are people living in my house. Is it inevitable that I or someone in my household will shoot someone? Of course not.

Creamy’s point is valid. There has been a breakdown regarding the sanctity of human life and of the limitations of dealing with conflict with other people.
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More guns = more homicides. It's pretty much always been that way. Here's a recent study from Harvard:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
 
Honestly I'm done fighting this losing battle. We just need to accept that we live in a dystopia gun nut society and stop caring anytime some kid get murdered. Shooting each other, regardless of age, is the American way. We are a horrific and barbaric people.

I'll be teaching my students that the American Dream is to own as money guns as possible. And if one firearm walks off and eventually kills a child, who cares, this is America baby. Home of the Free!
 
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BillBrasky said:
Honestly I'm done fighting this losing battle. We just need to accept that we live in a dystopia gun nut society and stop caring anytime some kid get murdered. Shooting each other, regardless of age, is the American way. We are a horrific and barbaric people.
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I certainly get this. But there is widespread support amongst Americans for the following, which would improve our situation:

Universal background checks
Magazine capacity limits
Making ghost guns illegal
Red flag laws
 
There’s a distinction between responsible gun owners and irresponsible “gun nuts”. And painting anybody that owns a gun as a gun nut is counter productive and insulting. It’s only going to result in responsible gun owners pushing back on reasonable gun control measures because of a feeling of persecution.

We don’t know anything about the gun involved, how it was purchased, how it got in the hands of the shooter.

This is an absolute tragedy. And the fact that a HS student had access to a gun is inexcusable. There needs to be real change and common sense laws enacted to prevent that type of access. There’s no excuse for any person that age to be able to get a gun in his or her hand.
 
Rafi said:
I certainly get this. But there is widespread support amongst Americans for the following, which would improve our situation:

Universal background checks
Magazine capacity limits
Making ghost guns illegal
Red flag laws
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Yeah fucking right. I'm been hearing that bullshit for 20 years. Nothing's going to happen.

We are a blood thirsty society that doesn't think twice about a news report of a child being murdered with a firearm. Gun ownership is based on nothing more than fetish for violence, and my god do we fetishize that shit.

My son is only one years old but when he starts kindergarten I'll tell him to enjoy everyday he has because you never know when some kid will get into a responsible gun owner's arsenal of death and walk into his school and blow his brains out.

This is America after all.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
There’s a distinction between responsible gun owners and irresponsible “gun nuts”. And painting anybody that owns a gun as a gun nut is counter productive and insulting. It’s only going to result in responsible gun owners pushing back on reasonable gun control measures because of a feeling of persecution.
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There is some truth to this, but it seems like it is the argument about the difference between Republicans and Trump supporters. Sure, one set is crazier than the other, but they both end up supporting similar policies. I would guess that many responsible gun owners are still NRA members, and the NRA is a terrible organization which is a horrible influence on on the country.
 
redwing42 said:
There is some truth to this, but it seems like it is the argument about the difference between Republicans and Trump supporters. Sure, one set is crazier than the other, but they both end up supporting similar policies. I would guess that many responsible gun owners are still NRA members, and the NRA is a terrible organization which is a horrible influence on on the country.
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Exactly. The responsible gun owners in this society are just as culpable for every juvenile homicide as the most rabid of 2Aers if they keep supporting organizations and candidates that block gun control legislation.

The truth is we are so past the point of regulation, that the only thing that will ever curb our obscene firearm homicide rates is a massive ban on most guns. Like you can keep your muskets, but that's about it. And there is zero public pressure for this to happen, so what's the point in even pretending that we give a shit anymore.
 
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redwing42 said:
There is some truth to this, but it seems like it is the argument about the difference between Republicans and Trump supporters. Sure, one set is crazier than the other, but they both end up supporting similar policies. I would guess that many responsible gun owners are still NRA members, and the NRA is a terrible organization which is a horrible influence on on the country.
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Adding to its fiscal predicament, the NRA’s membership has fallen since 2016, when it raised $163 million from membership dues. By 2019, that sum was down to $113 million. As membership dues dropped, the NRA sought funding from other sources.
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There’s a been a massive drop in NRA membership based on some of their policies.

12 years ago I was a member but I’ll never contribute another dollar.
 
Massive drop but they’re still a cultural force and an entire party will not budge on opposition to common sense gun laws.
 
Membership in the Republican Party has also dropped precipitously.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
Membership in the Republican Party has also dropped precipitously.
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Doesn’t matter. They’re twisting the rules to consolidate power. Any Republicans for sensible gun laws won’t risk losing power by supporting them.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
Membership in the Republican Party has also dropped precipitously.
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Doesn’t matter. They’re twisting the rules to consolidate power. Any Republicans for sensible gun laws won’t risk losing power by supporting them.
 
A school with 6 and 7 year olds was slaughtered, after nothing happened that about closed the book on gun control
in this country. Since then American society has continued to collapse in on itself where the underbelly continues to bubble to the surface. The west is burning, the east is flooding, there’s 1000s of preventable deaths per a day, and rambling insane conspiracy theorists rant at school board meetings while guzzling down horse paste.
 
It's depressing to acknowledge that if this had happened anywhere other than my fucking high school I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

Nothing is going to change.
 
BillBrasky said:
Yeah fucking right. I'm been hearing that bullshit for 20 years. Nothing's going to happen.

We are a blood thirsty society that doesn't think twice about a news report of a child being murdered with a firearm. Gun ownership is based on nothing more than fetish for violence, and my god do we fetishize that shit.

My son is only one years old but when he starts kindergarten I'll tell him to enjoy everyday he has because you never know when some kid will get into a responsible gun owner's arsenal of death and walk into his school and blow his brains out.

This is America after all.
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This is bullshit hysteria right here and doesn't help the conversation. I am a conservative, grew up hunting and own a few guns that I inherited from my father. I am no gun nut and have never actually purchased a gun myself. There are lots of gun control provisions that I would be in favor of - of course no one has asked me. I haven't seen any serious effort to get any of them passed. Unfortunately, the vocal fringe minority seems to rule this country - on both ends of the spectrum. They are loud and motivated and that gets shit done.
 
scooter84 said:
This is bullshit hysteria right here and doesn't help the conversation. I am a conservative, grew up hunting and own a few guns that I inherited from my father. I am no gun nut and have never actually purchased a gun myself. There are lots of gun control provisions that I would be in favor of - of course no one has asked me. I haven't seen any serious effort to get any of them passed. Unfortunately, the vocal fringe minority seems to rule this country - on both ends of the spectrum. They are loud and motivated and that gets shit done.
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No, one vocal fringe in this country is dictating gun control policy. Not two.

You own a gun to kill, right? How is that not a fetish for violence? I didn’t say it was morally wrong when applied to big game hunting, but hunters get their rocks off killing something, which is violence.

We are a rare first world society in that we celebrate violence and openly encourage it. That’s America. We are a bloodthirsty people.
 
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One vocal fringe has an entire party and several states on lock. The other “vocal fringe” doesn’t.
 
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