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Kenneth Walker III Appreciation Thread

It’s amazing to me that people think Clawson didn’t see something that a bunch of internet warriors did.

You must be new around here.

What's crazy is people actually believe Clawson will overhaul his system or make an exception to placate a player (or player's family) if he's talented enough. Not gonna happen.

Wish KWIII would have stuck around but he made the decision to leave. And it's not like there was a coaching or philosophy change from the system he was recruited into.
 
It’s amazing to me that people think Clawson didn’t see something that a bunch of internet warriors did.

Maybe he wasn’t a good teammate. Maybe he didn’t take coaching well (like with pass blocking). Maybe he liked to skip class. There’s any number of reasons players don’t play. I’m sure that we will never know and it’s a moot point because he’s gone now.

Maybe Clawson favors upper classmen, maybe he wanted to be a starter. KW3 had more yards in his first game at MSU then he ever did at Wake. He truly proved that he was deserving of being the starter. The fact we only won 4 games last year with him is disgusting. He is an NFL caliber RB, when you have that on the roster, you adjust your offense to maximize your strengths. Every week he is going to put up great numbers, and its gonna be like seeing your hot ex walk into a bar flirting with another dude.
 
When Clawson was the OC at Villanova, he had Brian Westbrook in the backfield but opted to split his time with an upperclassman. Westbrook stayed at Nova (Clawson left), but that team greatly underachieved. Stubborn dude.

In Westbrook's freshman year he split time with a guy who was a 1000-yard rusher the prior season, and Villanova ended up undefeated in the regular season averaging over 40 points per game, losing 37-34 to the eventual 1-AA national champion Youngstown State in the second round (the most points YSU gave up that season). But I guess that qualifies as "greatly underachieved"?
 
Extreme over-analysis on this thread.

Good/contributing players transferred from every school after last season. Even Bama, Clemson and UGA lost valuable pieces this off season. That's just the way college football is right now. Comparatively, WF's overall transfer numbers were low last year. With essentially unlimited free agency after each season, it's going to be this way every year.

Astonishes me the hits that Clawson takes on this Board (for apparently not coddling KW3) after watching the coaching malpractice that other higher paid coaches with higher rep programs commit every season.
 
As insightful as you are, you do have a blindspot when it comes to defending all things Wake Forest or ACC, which colors your ability to see things objectively sometimes. Clawson is flat out awesome, and it’s also possible that he could’ve done something differently to hold onto KWIII. We don’t really know, but such speculation is why message boards exist.
 
When's the last time Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia lost their best tailback ? Alabama and Georgia keep multiple 4-star and 5-star running backs happy and engaged, and get them drafted.
 
It's pretty simple. If we can tell from afar that KWIII was our best offensive weapon (and he was, by a lot), then it's pretty certain Clawson knew that too. So that leaves two possibilities:

1. Clawson is a dumbass who prefers some rigid approach over being as good as you can be.

2. There are reasons beyond Clawson's reasonable control why KWIII left.

Seems pretty clear to me.
 
I think it's 100% a combination of those two possibilities (I wouldn't have used dumbass, though). Clawson isn't going to bend his system to cater to any one player, no matter how good they may be. That also may warrant critique, at times.

Another example: historically, we pigeon hole WRs into one position, and don't move them around in the formation (and very rarely play 4 WRs). Pretty much directly lead to Tabari Hines transferring, as he was stuck behind Dortch in the slot, vs. putting them both on the field. Obviously, he didn't do anything after transferring and we developed other good WRs as well, but he could have been a useful piece if Clawson was willing to get more creative and adjust (not revamp) his system to maximize talent.
 
Things aren't mutually exclusive. Clawson is the greatest match to Wake Forest in its football history. He fucked up the running back room with Walker. And for the people bitching about this thread it's okay he fucked it up. And to all the people bitching, you saw what the rest of us saw. A killer.
 
When's the last time Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia lost their best tailback ? Alabama and Georgia keep multiple 4-star and 5-star running backs happy and engaged, and get them drafted.

So we are going to make this position-specific to try to prop up a counter-argument? So, a team has to lose its best tailback to make the comparison to other schools that lose good players? Derion Kendrick was an all-ACC DB for Clemson last year. He transferred to UGA and started on Saturday against Clemson. Jermaine Johnson was second on UGA in sacks last year. He transferred to FSU and was a disruptive force for the Noles against ND. Last night, the best player on the Ole Miss defense was LB Chance Campbell, who was the best defensive player on MD the year before (he was 2nd in the Big 10 in tackles last year). None of those team went through a coaching change; all of the players that left were very productive for their former schools, but they transferred anyway.

Over this past season, essentially every team lost good productive players for a variety of reasons. It's not like there is simmering dislike for the program among the players. From all appearances, the roster buys into the coaching staff and vice versa. Bummer that a very good player like KW3 left for Michigan State, but the wild-ass theories (e.g., like Clawson is a "dumbass" or Clawson is unreasonable inflexible robot) thrown out on this thread lack any basis.
 
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So we going to make this position-specific to try to prop up a counter-argument? So, a team has to lose its best tailback to make the comparison to other schools that lose good players? Derion Kendrick was an all-ACC DB for Clemson last year. He transferred to UGA and started on Saturday against Clemson. Jermaine Johnson was second on UGA in sacks last year. He transferred to FSU and was a disruptive force for the Noles against ND. Last night, the best player on the Ole Miss defense was LB Chance Campbell, who was the best defensive player on MD the year before (he was 2nd in the Big 10 in tackles last year). None of those team went through a coaching change; all of the players that left were very productive for their former schools, but they transferred anyway.

Over this past season, essentially every team lost good productive players for a variety of reasons. It's not like there is simmering dislike for the program among the players. From all appearances, the roster buys into the coaching staff and vice versa. Bummer that a very good player like KW3 left for Michigan State, but the wild-ass theories (e.g., like Clawson is a "dumbass" or Clawson is unreasonable inflexible robot) thrown out on this thread lack any basis.

Of course with the transfer portal lots of teams have lost good players for various reasons. I think the problem that most of us have is that Walker didn't start and didn't get a starters reps last year. He is a very, very good back, the kind of back Wake won't get often and it's frustrating he wasn't utilized as much as he probably should've been. If that had been the case and he still left, then so be it, but it's a shame if that was the reason.
 
Of course with the transfer portal lots of teams have lost good players for various reasons. I think the problem that most of us have is that Walker didn't start and didn't get a starters reps last year. He is a very, very good back, the kind of back Wake won't get often and it's frustrating he wasn't utilized as much as he probably should've been. If that had been the case and he still left, then so be it, but it's a shame if that was the reason.

I believe there were many games at Wake where he got as many reps, or almost as many, as he did in his one game for MSU.
 
So we are going to make this position-specific to try to prop up a counter-argument? So, a team has to lose its best tailback to make the comparison to other schools that lose good players? Derion Kendrick was an all-ACC DB for Clemson last year. He transferred to UGA and started on Saturday against Clemson. Jermaine Johnson was second on UGA in sacks last year. He transferred to FSU and was a disruptive force for the Noles against ND. Last night, the best player on the Ole Miss defense was LB Chance Campbell, who was the best defensive player on MD the year before (he was 2nd in the Big 10 in tackles last year). None of those team went through a coaching change; all of the players that left were very productive for their former schools, but they transferred anyway.

Over this past season, essentially every team lost good productive players for a variety of reasons. It's not like there is simmering dislike for the program among the players. From all appearances, the roster buys into the coaching staff and vice versa. Bummer that a very good player like KW3 left for Michigan State, but the wild-ass theories (e.g., like Clawson is a "dumbass" or Clawson is unreasonable inflexible robot) thrown out on this thread lack any basis.

For Georgia to lose a former JUCO edge rusher who transfers every year from a stacked DL with multiple players is not the same thing as losing your best running back when your depth at RB is questionable. We've had a starting quarterback and running back transfer out, ostensibly from this barely watchable mesh handoff and impending clobbering they're about to get.
 
For Georgia to lose a former JUCO edge rusher who transfers every year from a stacked DL with multiple players is not the same thing as losing your best running back when your depth at RB is questionable. We've had a starting quarterback and running back transfer out, ostensibly from this barely watchable mesh handoff and impending clobbering they're about to get.

If you don't like the most prolific offense, by far, in school history, don't watch the games. WF football will survive. BTW, that UGA offense was something else this weekend. Really fun watching that creative offense muster one made field goal in 60 minutesn=.
 
Does everyone love how I'M THE ONE who makes everything about Georgia, and not SOMEONE ELSE ?
 
For Georgia to lose a former JUCO edge rusher who transfers every year from a stacked DL with multiple players is not the same thing as losing your best running back when your depth at RB is questionable. We've had a starting quarterback and running back transfer out, ostensibly from this barely watchable mesh handoff and impending clobbering they're about to get.

It has become that way for me, especially when we play teams with big DL. The RPO is designed for a running QB, of which, Hartman is not. So why not more variety in the O? I've asked this many years now using Clemson as a comparison. Probably could roll over about any ACC team they play, yet they still have nice alternatives and surprises in their designed O. You could see it in the UGa game.
 
If you don't like the most prolific offense, by far, in school history, don't watch the games. WF football will survive. BTW, that UGA offense was something else this weekend. Really fun watching that creative offense muster one made field goal in 60 minutesn=.

Pilch, do you think coaches should adapt their systems to maximize the talent they've recruited (and keep them happy) or try to mold players to fit their system? Do you think Nick Saban should have stuck with the power running, defensive focused system that had already one him one or two championships in lieu of adopting the spread? Should he have run the same offense with Tua and Mac Jones as he did with Jalen Hurts?

The slow mesh is typically effective (often very effective) against mediocre to bad teams. It's been proven time and time again not to work against above average defenses. Suggesting mixing in some additional concepts into the offense (not talking about revamping the offense entirely) shouldn't be some massive indictment of Clawson - it should be fairly obvious. Oklahoma and other teams have had tons of success with the RPO (even some slower mesh points), but it's not 75+% of their playbooks.
 
Pilch, do you think coaches should adapt their systems to maximize the talent they've recruited (and keep them happy) or try to mold players to fit their system? Do you think Nick Saban should have stuck with the power running, defensive focused system that had already one him one or two championships in lieu of adopting the spread? Should he have run the same offense with Tua and Mac Jones as he did with Jalen Hurts?

The slow mesh is typically effective (often very effective) against mediocre to bad teams. It's been proven time and time again not to work against above average defenses. Suggesting mixing in some additional concepts into the offense (not talking about revamping the offense entirely) shouldn't be some massive indictment of Clawson - it should be fairly obvious. Oklahoma and other teams have had tons of success with the RPO (even some slower mesh points), but it's not 75+% of their playbooks.

I think that fans are way in over their head when they try to get too deep into offensive philosophies. You know why WF's offense has more trouble scoring against Clemson or Notre Dame? Because Clemson and Notre Dame have more future NFL players. It's not the scheme. Feel like fans hold to this concept that if the coach only called better plays, the offense could score on everyone. It's not that simple. Clawson has coached football for three decades at every level. He has won at every level. His offenses score points wherever he has coached. He is smart and innovative. He has smart guys on his staff. He scouts against his own offense. If he felt running the power I or some other offensive set would be more successful in short yardage, he would do that. I know that opposing teams hate playing against WF because the system is difficult to prepare for and unique. Clawson knows how to find under-recruited talent that thrive in the system. Look at WF's offense and compare it against the schools that recruit similar types of players: Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, BC, Cuse, Vandy. Over the last 5 years, WF has had better offensive production than any of them (even though WF recruiting has probably ranked below most of those schools).

At some point, Dave Clawson will either retire or move on to coaching another time. Really unfortunate that, for some, it will require losing him to appreciate what we have in him.
 
I think that fans are way in over their head when they try to get too deep into offensive philosophies. You know why WF's offense has more trouble scoring against Clemson or Notre Dame? Because Clemson and Notre Dame have more future NFL players. It's not the scheme. Feel like fans hold to this concept that if the coach only called better plays, the offense could score on everyone. It's not that simple. Clawson has coached football for three decades at every level. He has won at every level. His offenses score points wherever he has coached. He is smart and innovative. He has smart guys on his staff. He scouts against his own offense. If he felt running the power I or some other offensive set would be more successful in short yardage, he would do that. I know that opposing teams hate playing against WF because the system is difficult to prepare for and unique. Clawson knows how to find under-recruited talent that thrive in the system. Look at WF's offense and compare it against the schools that recruit similar types of players: Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, BC, Cuse, Vandy. Over the last 5 years, WF has had better offensive production than any of them (even though WF recruiting has probably ranked below most of those schools).

At some point, Dave Clawson will either retire or move on to coaching another time. Really unfortunate that, for some, it will require losing him to appreciate what we have in him.

First, I really hate giving this stupid thread air. And I agree that Dave Clawson knows more about football than I ever will; therefore I give him latitude to run his program.

That said...WF scores a lot of points because we run a quick tempo and run a lot of plays. This in turn also tires the defense, and contributes to the track meet score-fests that don't always go in WF's favor.

In my opinion, running plays a high tempo also increases the likelihood that WF will face injuries, which have crippled the team in most recent seasons.

There is no perfect system for ranking offensive efficiency; however "points scored" is definitely not at the top of the list. Here's a site that evaluates overall Offensive Efficiency.

According to that site, comparing:

Northwestern
Boston College
Stanford
Wake Forest

from 2017-2020, Stanford has the best overall efficiency, and did so in 3 of the 4 years (BC and AJ Dillon were the most efficient in 2019). WF has not been the most efficient offense of those four schools in any of the four years.

Of course, I'm more concerned with W-L than points scored. The least efficient offense of those four has been Northwestern, but all they've done is go 29-19, reach their conference championship game twice, and finish ranked 3 of the 4 years. Pat Fitzgerald is doing something right.
 
I think that fans are way in over their head when they try to get too deep into offensive philosophies. You know why WF's offense has more trouble scoring against Clemson or Notre Dame? Because Clemson and Notre Dame have more future NFL players. It's not the scheme. Feel like fans hold to this concept that if the coach only called better plays, the offense could score on everyone. It's not that simple. Clawson has coached football for three decades at every level. He has won at every level. His offenses score points wherever he has coached. He is smart and innovative. He has smart guys on his staff. He scouts against his own offense. If he felt running the power I or some other offensive set would be more successful in short yardage, he would do that. I know that opposing teams hate playing against WF because the system is difficult to prepare for and unique. Clawson knows how to find under-recruited talent that thrive in the system. Look at WF's offense and compare it against the schools that recruit similar types of players: Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, BC, Cuse, Vandy. Over the last 5 years, WF has had better offensive production than any of them (even though WF recruiting has probably ranked below most of those schools).

At some point, Dave Clawson will either retire or move on to coaching another time. Really unfortunate that, for some, it will require losing him to appreciate what we have in him.

Expecting blind loyalty to a good coach free from critique is not how sports fandom works, even for the Sabans of the world. Some people want to ditch the slow mesh RPO entirely - that's far from what I'm saying. I just think we need to vary the offense significantly more to maximize our talent and keep opposing (read: better) defenses off track.

Would love to hear Connor or Les' take on this, but it seems to me like our offensive playbook is much more concise than a lot of teams out there - seems like we'd have the type of football smarts/awareness to absorb a more varied playbook/scheme. To me, it's somewhat similar to the triple option. Navy/Army (and previously GT in the ACC) can have some damn good teams and solid years, but running solely a "gimmick offense" doesn't seem to lead to long term success as contenders for conf titles/big bowl games/etc. Although perhaps given our low recruiting rankings and shitty football history, we shouldn't get greedy.
 
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