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Official 2021-22 NBA Offseason Thread - Warriors extend Poole and Wiggins

I think you guys are overstating how bad Harden is, but obviously agree he was a disappointment overall in the playoffs, an especially bad matchup against great defensive teams like the Heat and Raps (or the Celtics or Bucks). As a facilitator in the regular season I think he's the kind of guy who can still get close to 20 pts and 10 assists, which is still an exceptionally rare skillset, but not necessarily a max contract skillset.

I think the conversation about passing the baton also pertains to the role Maxey plays on this team. It should be very clear that this should be Embiid and Maxey's team.

I thought Tobias was pretty good throughout the playoffs, but it really did seem like a bunch of individual performances from guys like him and Danny and Joel and Ty when they did each have big games, and rarely was there a good _team_ performance. That's the opposite of what you see with Raps and Heat, every game is a team performance, and both coaches stress the term "multiple efforts" a lot. I don't think Doc talked a single time about how hard the team played except for at halftime of game 5 when he said quote "It's not about Xs and Os right now, it's about who's playing harder." Which........... it's about both, coach. The Harden stand there iso offense might just bring the level of effort down on both ends for your team, which addresses both things, effort and tactics.

I know the Embiid window is still open, but feels like this was the year he was healthy the most, and he broke his face AGAIN. It wasn't conditioning, it wasn't diet, it wasn't effort, it was another dumb fluke injury. Hate it for him.
 
TownieDeac said:
I think you guys are overstating how bad Harden is, but obviously agree he was a disappointment overall in the playoffs, an especially bad matchup against great defensive teams like the Heat and Raps (or the Celtics or Bucks). As a facilitator in the regular season I think he's the kind of guy who can still get close to 20 pts and 10 assists, which is still an exceptionally rare skillset, but not necessarily a max contract skillset.

I think the conversation about passing the baton also pertains to the role Maxey plays on this team. It should be very clear that this should be Embiid and Maxey's team.

I thought Tobias was pretty good throughout the playoffs, but it really did seem like a bunch of individual performances from guys like him and Danny and Joel and Ty when they did each have big games, and rarely was there a good _team_ performance. That's the opposite of what you see with Raps and Heat, every game is a team performance, and both coaches stress the term "multiple efforts" a lot. I don't think Doc talked a single time about how hard the team played except for at halftime of game 5 when he said quote "It's not about Xs and Os right now, it's about who's playing harder." Which........... it's about both, coach. The Harden stand there iso offense might just bring the level of effort down on both ends for your team, which addresses both things, effort and tactics.

I know the Embiid window is still open, but feels like this was the year he was healthy the most, and he broke his face AGAIN. It wasn't conditioning, it wasn't diet, it wasn't effort, it was another dumb fluke injury. Hate it for him.
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this is who he is - it's been the same story for a decade for Harden
 
this whole interview is great - but this particular segment is a really interesting look into CP3's beautiful mind:

 
TownieDeac said:
I think you guys are overstating how bad Harden is, but obviously agree he was a disappointment overall in the playoffs, an especially bad matchup against great defensive teams like the Heat and Raps (or the Celtics or Bucks). As a facilitator in the regular season I think he's the kind of guy who can still get close to 20 pts and 10 assists, which is still an exceptionally rare skillset, but not necessarily a max contract skillset.

I think the conversation about passing the baton also pertains to the role Maxey plays on this team. It should be very clear that this should be Embiid and Maxey's team.

I thought Tobias was pretty good throughout the playoffs, but it really did seem like a bunch of individual performances from guys like him and Danny and Joel and Ty when they did each have big games, and rarely was there a good _team_ performance. That's the opposite of what you see with Raps and Heat, every game is a team performance, and both coaches stress the term "multiple efforts" a lot. I don't think Doc talked a single time about how hard the team played except for at halftime of game 5 when he said quote "It's not about Xs and Os right now, it's about who's playing harder." Which........... it's about both, coach. The Harden stand there iso offense might just bring the level of effort down on both ends for your team, which addresses both things, effort and tactics.

I know the Embiid window is still open, but feels like this was the year he was healthy the most, and he broke his face AGAIN. It wasn't conditioning, it wasn't diet, it wasn't effort, it was another dumb fluke injury. Hate it for him.
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If Harden is a guy that could be signed at or near present value, maybe there is an "overstatement about how bad Harden is", but the Sixers are on the hook to pay him $47 million next year. It's one thing to be a complementary piece on a modest contract, but when a team is forced to devote so much of its capital to a complementary player that is where it becomes a negative. Also, Harden is getting worse... fast. Maybe he hires a chef, nutritionist, yoga instructor, a personal trainer for each day of the week, and Harden shows up in camp this Fall with an eight pack, but recent history says Harden will be slower, fatter and even less of a factor next year. On top of his physical decline, this is a guy that has bailed on every team he every played for (and I would include last night's second half performance as additional evidence of Harden bailing on his team), just don't see Harden ever bringing synergy to the Philly roster. If I was Philly, I would do whatever I could to dump Harden. FWIW, feel for Embiid, he is a stud but he's has been stuck with the two most underperforming side pieces in recent NBA history in Simmons and Harden.
 
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buckets said:
this is who he is - it's been the same story for a decade for Harden
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Pilchard said:
If Harden is a guy that could be signed at or near present value, maybe there is an "overstatement about how bad Harden is", but the Sixers are on the hook to pay him $47 million next year. It's one thing to be a complementary piece on a modest contract, but when a team is forced to devote so much of its capital to a complementary player that is where it becomes a negative. Also, Harden is getting worse... fast. Maybe he hires a chef, nutritionist, yoga instructor, a personal trainer for each day of the week, and Harden shows up in camp this Fall with an eight pack, but recent history says Harden will be slower, fatter and even less of a factor next year. On top of his physical decline, this is a guy that has bailed on every team he every played for, just don't see Harden bring synergy to the Philly roster. If I was Philly, I would do whatever I could to dump Harden. FWIW, feel for Embiid, he is a stud but he's has been stuck with the two most underperforming side piece in recent NBA history in Simmons and Harden.
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sorry which is it? this is the player he's been for a decade or he's in great decline? need to get my narrative in order.
 
Not inconsistent (and not the same poster) - Harden has always been a playoff disappointer and it is pretty clear he is declining.
 
I get that he's not an MVP candidate anymore, his streak of 4 straight #1 Win Shares ended 2 years ago, and now he's a shell of his former self. But in his precipitous decline, he's fallen to 20th in win shares, and still 2nd in assists/game, 5th in FTA, 17th in PPG, 20th in BPM, etc. etc. Maybe there isn't value in paying a fringe top 20 player a max deal, but that's still where he is. Maybe it's a case of gobbling stats in the regular season and collapsing in the postseason, but I still think you are overstating the case. I don't necessarily want to extend him either, just saying the #narrative is a little much.
 
TownieDeac said:
sorry which is it? this is the player he's been for a decade or he's in great decline? need to get my narrative in order.
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he's in decline and has always and will always disappoint in the playoffs
 
Kory, I honestly don't remember. Harden was such a nonfactor I was shocked he played 43 minutes.
 
Villanova players overall seem to be underdrafted and overproduce. I'm torn on whether or not Brunson should get starting PG $$$. He's better than a backup, but I'm not sure he's the guy. Like a step below VanVleet.
 
Kidd is out-coaching Monty. I didn't expect to ever say that, but here we are. We'll see who comes out ahead in Game 7, but when Frank Ntilikina is shutting down Chris Paul, you've gotta get back to the drawing board.
 
PhDeac said:
Villanova players overall seem to be underdrafted and overproduce. I'm torn on whether or not Brunson should get starting PG $$$. He's better than a backup, but I'm not sure he's the guy. Like a step below VanVleet.
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elite 6th man imo, which deserves big money
 
How big? What's the difference between elite 6th man and starting PG money nowadays? I haven't started reading my share of Hollinger free agency columns yet.
 
Bill Simmons is really trying to give me a 45 minute podcast on the 10 worst Celtics losses of all time?
 
PhDeac said:
How big? What's the difference between elite 6th man and starting PG money nowadays? I haven't started reading my share of Hollinger free agency columns yet.
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well spencer dinwiddie got a 3 year, $62 million and i think brunson is better than him. jordan clarkson signed 4 years, $51 million a couple years back.

at the end of the day, i think it's likely he ends up getting signed as a starting pg, but i'm with you that i don't think he's that on a championship team.
 
This is a weak free agent class, so Brunson will probably get more than Dinwiddie regardless of the actual role he plays. I think the Mavs are as good as any other potential spot. Luka definitely needs someone to allow him to play off the ball.
 
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