• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

2021-22 Men's College Basketball Season - UNC v. Kansas for the Natty

TimmyClutch said:
I think it was ESPN who made the point, that if Wong transfers, than Ruiz has to continue to pay him under the contract, or it would open them up to pay for play which the NIL prohibits. Fascinating to see how this plays out.
Click to expand...

The thing about collectives is that ultimately, that's what they will be doing. A collective at School X that signs a kid up to do NIL deals is not going to continue to sign him to deals if he quits or transfers. The one bright line rule that the NCAA tried to put into place in all this (no pay for play) is being laughed out of the room by collectives and the NCAA is sitting on their hands.
 
there were always gonna be kinks and some early case studies that set future negotiations

don't think Wong will be the norm -- the money people will just get smarter on their contracts
 
It may not be legally "pay for play" if the NIL contract simply requires him to be an "enrolled full-time student" at a specific university.
 
Deaconblue said:
It may not be legally "pay for play" if the NIL contract simply requires him to be an "enrolled full-time student" at a specific university.
Click to expand...

to that point

 
so what happens to NIL money if a player transfers? didn't a Ohio State QB recruit get a million dollar NIL and then transfer after one season without ever playing? i am assuming there is not contract per se
 
All NIL deals are or should be memorialized by a written agreement. So, the written terms govern, as noted above, over time, those offering NIL deals will revise these agreements to protect their interests and terminate their obligations to pay (or obligate the athlete to re-pay) if certain contingencies arise like quitting the sport or transferring.
 
Duke hired Kai Lucas off of Calapari's KYT staff. First Duke Basketball coaching hire that wasn't part of the Coach K tree since 1995. Lucas is the son of former NBA player and coach John Lucas. Kai Lucas is considered a rising star in the coaching ranks and is particularly known for bringing talent from Texas: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33827251/sources-duke-blue-devils-hiring-kentucky-wildcats-jai-lucas-assistant-basketball-coach

Smart move. One of the many reasons that Duke recently underperformed its talent was the incestousness of the Duke program.
 
Pilchard said:
Duke hired Kai Lucas off of Calapari's KYT staff. First Duke Basketball coaching hire that wasn't part of the Coach K tree since 1995. Lucas is the son of former NBA player and coach John Lucas. Kai Lucas is considered a rising star in the coaching ranks and is particularly known for bringing talent from Texas: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-b...wildcats-jai-lucas-assistant-basketball-coach

Smart move. One of the many reasons that Duke recently underperformed its talent was the incestousness of the Duke program.
Click to expand...

Jai Lucas. Yeah, that looks like a good move by Scheyer.
 
WakeForest Fan said:
so what happens to NIL money if a player transfers? didn't a Ohio State QB recruit get a million dollar NIL and then transfer after one season without ever playing? i am assuming there is not contract per se
Click to expand...

If the NIL deal is just for a company and the compensation is tied to basic contractual performance of whatever terms exist, then transferring wouldn't really implicate anything other than needing to report the deal to the new school. Everything (in a perfect world) would stay the same and the deal still exists.

That's the major issue with collectives. Your Top Hat collective isn't going to want to continue to pay a WF FB kid who transfers to Maryland or Oklahoma State or Utah. But based on the limited rules the NCAA did keep in place, that would (allegedly) have to be the case. And if the collective discontinues an NIL deal with a kid because they quit or transfer, it is pretty clearly pay-for-play or pay-for-continued-enrollment, the two things the NCAA actually still has regulations on.
 
Gooner said:
If the NIL deal is just for a company and the compensation is tied to basic contractual performance of whatever terms exist, then transferring wouldn't really implicate anything other than needing to report the deal to the new school. Everything (in a perfect world) would stay the same and the deal still exists.

That's the major issue with collectives. Your Top Hat collective isn't going to want to continue to pay a WF FB kid who transfers to Maryland or Oklahoma State or Utah. But based on the limited rules the NCAA did keep in place, that would (allegedly) have to be the case. And if the collective discontinues an NIL deal with a kid because they quit or transfer, it is pretty clearly pay-for-play or pay-for-continued-enrollment, the two things the NCAA actually still has regulations on.
Click to expand...

what if the NIL contract is silent on enrollment or playing for a team, but states the kid must appear in community events in Winston-Salem, NC, once per week (or whatever)? That would seem to preclude a WF player from transferring to Utah.
 
thatguy2016 said:
what if the NIL contract is silent on enrollment or playing for a team, but states the kid must appear in community events in Winston-Salem, NC, once per week (or whatever)? That would seem to preclude a WF player from transferring to Utah.
Click to expand...

On its face, that would be a permissible NIL deal and it could go some way toward preventing kids from transferring away if they want to keep that specific deal, but at the same time I would hope a smart athlete wouldn't sign a deal with such a specific contract term in it.
 
Gooner said:
On its face, that would be a permissible NIL deal and it could go some way toward preventing kids from transferring away if they want to keep that specific deal, but at the same time I would hope a smart athlete wouldn't sign a deal with such a specific contract term in it.
Click to expand...

College athletes, excluding the Cavinder twins and other very rare exceptions, do not have the leverage to be picky. Miami football and basketball players are reasonably valuable endorsers for Miami-based businesses. If they transfer to Penn State, they are no longer valuable to a Miami-based business.
 
thatguy2016 said:
College athletes, excluding the Cavinder twins and other very rare exceptions, do not have the leverage to be picky. Miami football and basketball players are reasonably valuable endorsers for Miami-based businesses. If they transfer to Penn State, they are no longer valuable to a Miami-based business.
Click to expand...

Right but that's not on them to assume all the risk, just like it's not on anyone entering into a contract to take on 100% of the risk of the agreement. If an athlete negotiating terms means a company or an individual refuses to do the deal, that's business.
 
Gooner said:
Spoiler alert, it already was.
Click to expand...

People love to say this but it just isn't true. NIL is not the same as a limited number of shady boosters passing money to players under the table. When I say limited number I am not being naive - I am sure it went on a lot - but it was against the rules and lots of boosters with money would not want to participate in those types of activities - so the pool of contributors was somewhat limited. And kids couldn't be out in the open playing schools off of one another to get the most money. Plus the new no-sit transfer rules change the game completely...
 
Gooner said:
Right but that's not on them to assume all the risk, just like it's not on anyone entering into a contract to take on 100% of the risk of the agreement. If an athlete negotiating terms means a company or an individual refuses to do the deal, that's business.
Click to expand...

Yes to your last sentence. And when the athlete refuses to do the deal, then the business is fine, and the athlete has no money
 
thatguy2016 said:
Yes to your last sentence. And when the athlete refuses to do the deal, then the business is fine, and the athlete has no money
Click to expand...

The business is where they were before the deal, but they aren’t as fine as they possibly could be with the athletes endorsement or with the enhanced season ticket value that a better team would bring. They aren’t getting nothing out of the deal
 
thatguy2016 said:
Yes to your last sentence. And when the athlete refuses to do the deal, then the business is fine, and the athlete has no money
Click to expand...

And that’s fine! I don’t know why you are so upset/bewildered by this. There are millions of business deals that break down all the time because parties can’t agree on terms. Athletes have no responsibility or requirement to accept deals just because they can now if the deal is unfavorable to them for any reason. That’s the system working properly. The athlete can go find another deal, someone will probably want to do a deal and perhaps have more favorable terms to the athlete. Free market, baby.
 
For the record, I’m not saying college sports were professional sports because of booster payments prior to NIL. I’m saying it was professional sports because in nearly every single way other than athlete compensation, it has been like professional sports for decades.
 
Gooner said:
And that’s fine! I don’t know why you are so upset/bewildered by this. There are millions of business deals that break down all the time because parties can’t agree on terms. Athletes have no responsibility or requirement to accept deals just because they can now if the deal is unfavorable to them for any reason. That’s the system working properly. The athlete can go find another deal, someone will probably want to do a deal and perhaps have more favorable terms to the athlete. Free market, baby.
Click to expand...

I’m…not bewildered. You said a smart athlete would not sign a contract with a restriction.

I’m saying those are the contracts that are available. Not sure why you are so bewildered.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top