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Shame on Deacon fans

Dkin said:
There is nothing wrong w/ Wake basketball being hyped on twitter. So far I have loved watching this team both in person and via streaming services. The wrong is in fan-shaming after this incredibly small sample size.

Can someone provide an example or two of any university spending significant $ to make their arena smaller?
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https://gopack.com/facilities/james-t-valvano-arena-at-william-neal-reynolds-coliseum/20

NCSU took Reynolds Coliseum from 12,400 down to 5,500 as the permanent home of the Wolfpack women, and also 1-2 "legacy" games a year for the men's team.
 
Cameron Indoor only has 9400 seats and regularly has empties. The only reason Wake’s arena is bigger is because it’s a shared civic center. Any arena dedicated for Wake BB should only seat 8-9k.


My opinion is that Wake should buy Winston-Salem First Assembly and turn it into a basketball arena.
 
Can we puhlease leave the Mannequin and Bzzeldick and Wellman out of our current hoops discussions as much as possible? Enjoy our opportunity for success in these vastly different times. And beating DRs on campus mini arena dead horse stopped being useful a moment or two after he proposed it.
 
donaldross said:
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Forbes is a jolly, loveable fella. He deserves our support. By support I mean having a proper home venue. We don't. We should change that and support the guy.

Posting charming things on twitter doesn't help. It only festers the disaster that is our basketball situation which we caused. Folks on here actually think in the 1998-2011 run was 13 years of fun. We had way too many empty seats then as well. Our program produced 1 ACC semifinal appearance and 1 sweet 16 during that era. In short, we completely sucked. Those on here praising those years as a beacon that all is ok well with the infrastructure of Wake Forest basketball are perpetuating the fraud.

The shame isn't on the tangential Wake hoops fans from not attending any games yet. The shame is on the significant Wake hoops fans who built and then tolerated a 15K seat debacle for our home venue. The shame is squarely on us. We are the ones who screwed up and keep screwing up.

Jolly Steve Forbes deserves better. We should fix it.
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DR, I admire your energy and persistence. But you wildly overestimate the importance of a small basketball arena. You went to Duke and became fixated on small arenas. Duke has a good home court because they win so much, and they win so much because they have a hall of fame coach. Cameron without a hall of fame coach is nothing. I went to a lot of games at Cameron during the 94-95 season, and the place/crowd was lame. The Joel was much better than Cameron that season, because Wake was really good and Duke was terrible.

In college basketball, and all college sports, the coach is the key. The examples of this are to numerous to count. Give UNC Matt Dougherty and they’re terrible. Mike DuBose led Bama football to a 24-23 record. Bill Snyder and K State is a fantastic example.

The point is, the coach is key. Not the building. We’ve got a great coach, so it may take a year or two, but we’re going to be really good.
 
Rafi said:
DR, I admire your energy and persistence. But you wildly overestimate the importance of a small basketball arena. You went to Duke and became fixated on small arenas. Duke has a good home court because they win so much, and they win so much because they have a hall of fame coach. Cameron without a hall of fame coach is nothing. I went to a lot of games at Cameron during the 94-95 season, and the place/crowd was lame. The Joel was much better than Cameron that season, because Wake was really good and Duke was terrible.

In college basketball, and all college sports, the coach is the key. The examples of this are to numerous to count. Give UNC Matt Dougherty and they’re terrible. Mike DuBose led Bama football to a 24-23 record. Bill Snyder and K State is a fantastic example.

The point is, the coach is key. Not the building. We’ve got a great coach, so it may take a year or two, but we’re going to be really good.
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This x1000
 
Got to admit the new HPU and Elon arenas are very nice. Would love a new 9k arena and I’m sure it has been studied. Apparently, WF can’t make it work.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Cameron Indoor only has 9400 seats and regularly has empties. The only reason Wake’s arena is bigger is because it’s a shared civic center. Any arena dedicated for Wake BB should only seat 8-9k.


My opinion is that Wake should buy Winston-Salem First Assembly and turn it into a basketball arena.
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Great idea but WFU bought that place 2 years ago. I think they have another year to build the new church and move out. No idea what WFU will do with the property, but will likely raze it and build more dorms.
 
wfu22fan said:
Got to admit the new HPU and Elon arenas are very nice. Would love a new 9k arena and I’m sure it has been studied. Apparently, WF can’t make it work.
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High Point is a great example. They spent $170 million to build a new bball arena and they are 2-4 and lost at home a few nights ago to Georgia State in front of a 1/3 full stadium. They need a new coach (and have needed one for years) - Tubby Smith isn’t going to do it. The arena will make no difference, but a new coach will.
 
To elaborate on this, if Manning was still our coach, Wake could have built a 200 seat thunder dome and only allow fans that could yell at 100 decibels and we would still be terrible. The coach is the key.
 
I agree with Rafi, but the OP is right in a way (maybe 3 games later if attendance is still low). I agree it would be awesome if attendance was a bit stronger and we had more butts in seats. Right now it's families and let's just say the more "quiet older fan" at the games. However, as others pointed out, COVID, weak non-conference games, and years and years of apathy by students and WFU fandom have gotten us to where we are.

But, it would be nice to turn that tide like we did with football and get the place rocking ala Tye Dye Nation! We have a nice team that is fun to watch! It would be cool if started filling the place and getting that extra edge.
 
TheAbster said:
Ron Wellman beat any interest in basketball out of me years ago.
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Yep, totally ruined basketball. Got rid of a two time ACC championship coach because he wanted to hire his own guy. Did the same in baseball to a 3 time ACC championship coach. Man was an egomaniac and made two awful hires in both basketball & baseball. He put us on probation in both sports the past 10+ years. Forbes will get us out of this quagmire in basketball thanks to a great hire by Currie!
 
TheReff said:
Yep, totally ruined basketball. Got rid of a two time ACC championship coach because he wanted to hire his own guy. Did the same in baseball to a 3 time ACC championship coach. Man was an egomaniac and made two awful hires in both basketball & baseball. He put us on probation in both sports the past 10+ years. Forbes will get us out of this quagmire in basketball thanks to a great hire by Currie!
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Now he needs to do the same in baseball. God only knows how Walter still has a job. Especially with the money pouring into the program.
 
Deaconblue said:
$$$$$$$$$ 15-20K paying customers in Greensboro vs 8500 in Winston. Even if half were rooting for Wake's opponents.

And the old Coliseum was gone before the Joel was usable.
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Well if we wanted home court advantage we play all games at the coliseum is my point.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Now he needs to do the same in baseball. God only knows how Walter still has a job. Especially with the money pouring into the program.
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Could have said the same thing about Hoover but sticking with her seems to be paying off. Maybe with Currie as AD, Walter can turn it around this year.
 
The arena convo is so tired. I’m not even against it, but it ain’t happenin. I attended a boatload of games at both Cameron and the Dean Dome in law school. The Joel during good games/good years, both under Odom and Skip, were just as loud, if not louder, than either venue. Think Kansas in 2000, the TJDK year (2003) and CP’s entire career. It all comes down to winning. While the Joel is not the most awesome venue in college basketball, it’s not the reason our crowds seem weak. Also, college basketball is going through quite a transition at the moment. Even me, who basically went to Wake because I wanted to go to a good “sports school” and didn’t go abroad because I was too sad to miss a football or basketball season, recognizes that now is probably not the time to sink a ton of money into college basketball until things settle.
 
donaldross said:
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Forbes is a jolly, loveable fella. He deserves our support. By support I mean having a proper home venue. We don't. We should change that and support the guy.

Posting charming things on twitter doesn't help. It only festers the disaster that is our basketball situation which we caused. Folks on here actually think in the 1998-2011 run was 13 years of fun. We had way too many empty seats then as well. Our program produced 1 ACC semifinal appearance and 1 sweet 16 during that era. In short, we completely sucked. Those on here praising those years as a beacon that all is ok well with the infrastructure of Wake Forest basketball are perpetuating the fraud.

The shame isn't on the tangential Wake hoops fans from not attending any games yet. The shame is on the significant Wake hoops fans who built and then tolerated a 15K seat debacle for our home venue. The shame is squarely on us. We are the ones who screwed up and keep screwing up.

Jolly Steve Forbes deserves better. We should fix it.
Click to expand...

I love that you made this post 9AM Thanksgiving day.
 
Dkin said:
There is nothing wrong w/ Wake basketball being hyped on twitter. So far I have loved watching this team both in person and via streaming services. The wrong is in fan-shaming after this incredibly small sample size.

Can someone provide an example or two of any university spending significant $ to make their arena smaller?
Click to expand...

Agreed.

My proposal has always been, if we do make a change, take the Joel down to a 12,000 seat arena by putting a bar and lounge upstairs on 1 side. Make sure all seats are black, get the students closer to the floor if possible, and figure out some kind of overpass to make it easier for the students to walk to games.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Agreed.

My proposal has always been, if we do make a change, take the Joel down to a 12,000 seat arena by putting a bar and lounge upstairs on 1 side. Make sure all seats are black, get the students closer to the floor if possible, and figure out some kind of overpass to make it easier for the students to walk to games.
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You misspelled monorail but otherwise, I agree. Maybe create some pregame/halftime/postgame students only area as well to duplicate the success of the tailgating area. Encourage students to stay the whole game.
 
NJDeac’22 said:
I question how much you follow this team. They’re good. We knew that going into the year and we haven’t really learned much so far but take a gander at how the rest of the ACC has done against bad teams and you’ll see several losses and a lot of close games.
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Lol. Dude definitely follows the team. Not trying to put down the passion because it's something we obviously need from current students, but questioning bona fides here probably isn't the best look. A lot of the folks here have stuck with this team through more than a decade of sucking ass and were around well before that. Popping in here like a year ago and questioning how much a long time poster follows Wake sports is laughable.
 
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