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MBB Game 7: LSU Tigers - Saturday 7 pm CBS Sports Network

Forbes has clearly upgraded the talent on our roster. However , the pieces do not seem to be fitting together very well. This was exposed with the better competition. Hopefully this improves as the year progresses. It will also give us an indication of Forbes coaching ability. The lack of intensity from Forbes in the Florida games was also concerning. I was expecting more of a fiery coach and he appeared pretty laid back on TV. Maybe in person it was different but on TV it looked like intensity was lacking. The team also lack intensity and players did not seem to understand their role. It is early but there clearly is a lot of work to be done if we want to be remotely competitive in conference play.
 
Forbes has clearly upgraded the talent on our roster. However , the pieces do not seem to be fitting together very well. This was exposed with the better competition. Hopefully this improves as the year progresses. It will also give us an indication of Forbes coaching ability. The lack of intensity from Forbes in the Florida games was also concerning. I was expecting more of a fiery coach and he appeared pretty laid back on TV. Maybe in person it was different but on TV it looked like intensity was lacking. The team also lack intensity and players did not seem to understand their role. It is early but there clearly is a lot of work to be done if we want to be remotely competitive in conference play.

This is a bit of an overreaction IMHO.
We didn't look great yesterday. But coaches know what their teams/players need. Sometimes they need a kick in the pants and sometimes they need a little TLC. And really, is it surprising that he's still working to fit the pieces together? Ton of new parts to mold together. The man has a proven record of success. I'll trust him to figure out how to make that happen.
And, outside of Duke, no one in the ACC has been stellar so far this year. There's plenty of opportunity to win a bunch of ACC games.
 
After the first half against OSU Friday night, WF shot 6 for 29 (20.9%) from 3 for the rest of the tournament, and WF was outscored by 30 points. Like most teams, when WF is hitting from deep, Deacs can play with anyone. When WF is not, WF can lose to (or blow 20 point leads) to anyone. Like Isaiah Mucius, but after hitting his first two threes on Friday night, he went 1 for 15 for the rest of the tournament. On Saturday against LSU, Mucius not only went 0 for 8 from the field, but in 22 minutes he grabbed ZERO rebounds and had ZERO assists. That is impossibly bad. FWIW, a lot of players had ridiculously awful games against LSU (Hildreth and Whitt combined for 24 minutes and missed every shot while combining for 8 turnovers). Wow.
 
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After the first half against OSU Friday night, WF shot 6 for 29 (20.9%) from 3 for the rest of the tournament, and WF was outscored by 30 points. Like most teams, when WF is hitting from deep, Deacs can play with anyone. When WF is not, WF can lose to (or blow 20 point leads) to anyone. Like Isaiah Mucius, but after hitting his first two threes on Friday night, he went 1 for 15 for the rest of the tournament. On Saturday against LSU, Mucius not only went 0 for 8 from the field, but in 22 minutes he grabbed ZERO rebounds and had ZERO assists. That is impossibly bad. FWIW, a lot of players had ridiculously awful games against LSU (Hildreth and Whitt combined for 24 minutes and missed every shot while combining for 8 turnovers. Wow.

Forbes in the postgame: “I asked the team, if your shot isn’t falling, what else are you doing to help the team? we had guys playing a lot of minutes with no rebounds and no assists”
 
Thought that was a clever way for Forbes to call out Mucius and Whitt without naming them...

Disagree that this team is a "if the 3's aren't falling we can lose to Stetson" type team like last year's Frankenstein of a squad. These guys can actually defend, and Alondes, Cam, and LaRavia are all inside-first players. Forbes made the point that you're not always going to shoot a high percentage from deep every night, so what are you going to do on those nights? Lose every time? This team has the makeup to win some of those games as well. LSU is good, the only ACC team ranked above them in Kenpom is Duke right now. Some definite overreactions in this thread, we didn't just lose to a garbage team. And despite its ugly nature we just beat a decent Oregon State team while shooting 25% from deep.
 
Mucius was terrible yesterday. Actually, thought Whitt was ok. He did have some turnovers but played decent enough in the first half to get the second half start over Williamson.
 
I must admit that I’m actually worried about Whitt. “It” just doesn’t seem to be there.
 
Not worried about Whitt, just feels like he needs to get stronger.
 
I must admit that I’m actually worried about Whitt. “It” just doesn’t seem to be there.

Man I could not disagree more. He sees the court better than anybody we’ve had in a long time. And he has a healthy amount of swagger. The “It” factor is his biggest attribute, and it’ll just take time for his body to catch up from a strength standpoint.
 
Forbes in the postgame: “I asked the team, if your shot isn’t falling, what else are you doing to help the team? we had guys playing a lot of minutes with no rebounds and no assists”

This.

I also thin Monsanto is or was a key guy. Could play several positioms.
 
Mucius was terrible yesterday. Actually, thought Whitt was ok. He did have some turnovers but played decent enough in the first half to get the second half start over Williamson.

I mean, Whitt played more than 10 minutes and didn't record a stat other than 4 turnovers. He was overmatched for sure, hence the McCray minutes, who clearly outplayed Whitt. I wouldn't say I'm worried about Whitt because his vision, passing, etc. are all great... But I'm curious how long it'll be before he can hang against a team like LSU.
 
With the mess that Forbes inherited I still don't think the team can or should be meaningfully evaluated until at least the mid-point of the season. Last year was a total throw-away year. If there are major issues evident in late February, I'll start worrying. Seems to me everything is nicely on track given where Forbes had to start. I miss the days when I felt like I knew the players well and could watch them develop over time. I think the presence of so many new and unfamiliar faces is impacting attendance and support and will continue to do so for a while.
 
I doubt the Deacons face a team as quick and fast as LSU this season. They made everything the Deacs tried to do on offense difficult. The frustration affected their defensive intensity as well.

Too bad the Deacs don't have a player or two willing to put an opponent in the cheap seats, let the frustration rise to the surface, then redirect it to attacking on offense and defense. As often as not, aggressive, physical teams don't perform well against teams who respond in kind. If they do then you and the refs know a war is coming and the whistle often changes. Of course, you have to be willing to go to war for this to work. The Deacons weren't willing against LSU. Maybe that changes.
 
yeah, LSU was long and athletic. once they began to press, weakness found against OSU in 2nd half, then the game was lost. they need to fix this or we will see it in every game.
 
We are receiving 2 votes in the AP poll. Not sure why, but I'll take it haha.
 
yeah, LSU was long and athletic. once they began to press, weakness found against OSU in 2nd half, then the game was lost. they need to fix this or we will see it in every game.

Heading into the season, was concerned about WF's ability to handle pressure defense. Love Davien, but he is not a true point. DW is more of a combo scoring guard who can handle. Alondes is similar, and Forbes has so far gotten away with playing two combo guards together, because LaRavia can also handle (which is huge). The only true PG on the roster is Whitt, and he is young and not ready to make strong athletic top 25 teams pay for pressure. Not giving up on Whitt, but his numbers through his limited career are awful. Whitt had the worst TO rate of any ACC player who got regular minutes last year (yes, worse than Jacobi Neath), and his TO rate is actually up this year. Further, Whitt's overall offensive rating (and WF has played a crappy schedule) of 63.9 is atrocious. No one else in WF top 9 has a rate worse than 87. 100 is average. WF has some pieces and Forbes is generally putting his team in position to make it work, but basketball is a guard's game, and WF doesn't have a guard that can deal with and exploit pressure. Opposing coaches are smart. They will follow the blue print until WF makes teams pay for playing an attacking defense against us.
 
Heading into the season, was concerned about WF's ability to handle pressure defense. Love Davien, but he is not a true point. DW is more of a combo scoring guard who can handle. Alondes is similar, and Forbes has so far gotten away with playing two combo guards together, because LaRavia can also handle (which is huge). The only true PG on the roster is Whitt, and he is young and not ready to make strong athletic top 25 teams pay for pressure. Not giving up on Whitt, but his numbers through his limited career are awful. Whitt had the worst TO rate of any ACC player who got regular minutes last year (yes, worse than Jacobi Neath), and his TO rate is actually up this year. Further, Whitt's overall offensive rating (and WF has played a crappy schedule) of 63.9 is atrocious. No one else in WF top 9 has a rate worse than 87. 100 is average. WF has some pieces and Forbes is generally putting his team in position to make it work, but basketball is a guard's game, and WF doesn't have a guard that can deal with and exploit pressure. Opposing coaches are smart. They will follow the blue print until WF makes teams pay for playing an attacking defense against us.

was actually looking at Whitt's stats earlier today. He is shooting 33% from 2 and 20% from 3. 17 assists, 17 turnovers. These numbers are in line with his shooting and assist/TO from last year. He has a negative Win Share. This is difficult to do. For context, Joseph Amonett had a better Win Share. As did Jerry Braswell, in the year when he apparently forgot how to dribble. Whitt is young and he will improve. He needs to improve. A lot.
 
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