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Raging on AP Top 25 Voters

W-SJ apparently will never emphasize their own home town teams over all the others. Hence, W-S small businesses pay a bigger price per dollar spent with WF Sports or WSSU. It’s really unfortunate and the polar opposite of the N&O coverage of State, UNCCH and Duke. The N&O doesn’t cover WF for the same reason the W-SJ should not cover ASU, UNCCH, STATE or Duke at all (especially in the digital age).

ASU, UNCCH, STATE and Duke are not local to W-S. That’s clear as a bell but the Journal could care less about emphasizing the local teams over the out of town teams unlike the N&O.
 
For Deac's Sake said:
Admittedly after a few bourbons while watching the Rose Bowl and our basketball game, I looked up the most recent AP Top 25 ballot for each voter (the December 5th ballot, after the championship weekend games). Shockingly, 22 voters had State ahead of us - many by a wide margin (State 17th, WF 22nd etc). One of the most egregious was the W-S Journal’s very own Ethan Joyce, who had State at 15th and WF at 22nd.

Makes no fucking sense to me. At the time, we were 10-3 vs 9-3, had the Atlantic division title, and the head to head win vs State. Is this just laziness on the part of voters? Or “name brand” bias (not that State is really a name brand)? Or am I missing something?

Anyway, I found email addresses for 19 of the 22 voters and sent each a friendly email pointing out these facts and emphasizing my hope that their final ballots would reflect 11-3 Wake over 9-3 State. Found Twitter handles for the other three - that’s tomorrow’s project.

Just needed to vent. Such bullshit - we should be ahead of State on every single ballot.
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Paste the addresses please.
 
When does the next poll come out? Next Tuesday following the natty game?
I’m guessing we finish at 16 in the AP and Coaches poll.
 
Dekin said:
When does the next poll come out? Next Tuesday following the natty game?
I’m guessing we finish at 16 in the AP and Coaches poll.
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AP poll comes out within an hour or two of the end of the national championship game. Voters have the option of filing their ballot ahead of time with condition that winner of championship is No. 1, loser is No. 2, so that anybody covering the game isn't trying to file while doing interviews.
 
Thanks

Anything we can do to influence votes?
 
Dekin said:
Thanks

Anything we can do to influence votes?
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I can't speak for every voter, but when I was a voter I always tried to engage and answer any emails/@'s/DMs that were level-headed about my vote. Coming at somebody with "you stupid asshole do you even know how to football" isn't likely to net results. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar type of thing.

I'd like to think I wasn't influenced one way or the other, but there's probably some level of subconscious thought involved.
 
CONeill said:
I can't speak for every voter, but when I was a voter I always tried to engage and answer any emails/@'s/DMs that were level-headed about my vote. Coming at somebody with "you stupid asshole do you even know how to football" isn't likely to net results. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar type of thing.

I'd like to think I wasn't influenced one way or the other, but there's probably some level of subconscious thought involved.
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[insert Debbie Yow joke here]
 
Jroc25 said:
Honestly, it's probably bc State beat Clemson & UNC and we barely beat State at home.
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Beating UNC at home wasn't a big accomplishment. We would have beaten UNC at home too. But especially for a sports writer who takes the easy road and doesn't do any of their own homework I can see how Wake's absolutely throttling at the hands of Clemson (and then Pitt) would put us below State. We barely won at home, that could call into question would would win at a neutral site. I know how we all feel but ask yourself what would Vegas say? State - 1 1/2 would be my guess. Vegas is generally more accurate than any poll.
 
Brendan207 said:
Beating UNC at home wasn't a big accomplishment. We would have beaten UNC at home too. But especially for a sports writer who takes the easy road and doesn't do any of their own homework I can see how Wake's absolutely throttling at the hands of Clemson (and then Pitt) would put us below State. We barely won at home, that could call into question would would win at a neutral site. I know how we all feel but ask yourself what would Vegas say? State - 1 1/2 would be my guess. Vegas is generally more accurate than any poll.
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The polls arent supposed to be about who can beat whom, especially at the end of the season. It is supposed to be about who has the best results.
 
I've received three replies so far. One was basically "thanks for the input," a second was "I'll keep this in mind when I fill out my next ballot, but no promises" but the third was fairly detailed, and here's what he said:

"Thanks for the note and good, fair question.

Rankings are about more than just the record. That's the short answer. The longer answer...

NC State and Clemson were ahead of Wake in advanced metrics. In ESPN's SP+, Clemson was 8 (seems quite high to me, but whatever), NC State is 13 and Wake is 39th, for example. Sagarin (another analytical thing I check) now has Clemson at 8, State at 17 and Wake at 21. It's similar with ESPN's FPI. You get the point.

I viewed those 3 ACC teams as kind of a jumble. Wake beat NC State which beat Clemson which beat Wake. At that point, it comes down to other things. Wake had some unimpressive wins over Army (56 points allowed!), Louisville and Syracuse, plus a 24-point loss to Pitt. State crushed Louisville and Syracuse, while Clemson was more competitive against Pitt.

You mention, correctly, the extra Wake win. But consider the schedule. Clemson had a one-score loss against a Georgia team playing in the national championship. That's more impressive than any Wake non-con win. NC State lost at a top-40 Mississippi State team. That's probably more impressive than beating Army 70-56.

So add that all up, and that's why I put them in that order.

Appreciated the guy detailing his thoughts even if I don't agree with it all, thought the perspective was interesting to share here.
 
For Deac's Sake said:
I've received three replies so far. One was basically "thanks for the input," a second was "I'll keep this in mind when I fill out my next ballot, but no promises" but the third was fairly detailed, and here's what he said:

"Thanks for the note and good, fair question.

Rankings are about more than just the record. That's the short answer. The longer answer...

NC State and Clemson were ahead of Wake in advanced metrics. In ESPN's SP+, Clemson was 8 (seems quite high to me, but whatever), NC State is 13 and Wake is 39th, for example. Sagarin (another analytical thing I check) now has Clemson at 8, State at 17 and Wake at 21. It's similar with ESPN's FPI. You get the point.

I viewed those 3 ACC teams as kind of a jumble. Wake beat NC State which beat Clemson which beat Wake. At that point, it comes down to other things. Wake had some unimpressive wins over Army (56 points allowed!), Louisville and Syracuse, plus a 24-point loss to Pitt. State crushed Louisville and Syracuse, while Clemson was more competitive against Pitt.

You mention, correctly, the extra Wake win. But consider the schedule. Clemson had a one-score loss against a Georgia team playing in the national championship. That's more impressive than any Wake non-con win. NC State lost at a top-40 Mississippi State team. That's probably more impressive than beating Army 70-56.

So add that all up, and that's why I put them in that order.

Appreciated the guy detailing his thoughts even if I don't agree with it all, thought the perspective was interesting to share here.
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So basically, wins don't matter. "I'll find any metric other than W-L to justify my ranking."
 
Basing polls on FPI is just weird. The polls are your opinion based on watching games yourself.
 
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For Deac's Sake said:
I've received three replies so far. One was basically "thanks for the input," a second was "I'll keep this in mind when I fill out my next ballot, but no promises" but the third was fairly detailed, and here's what he said:

"Thanks for the note and good, fair question.

Rankings are about more than just the record. That's the short answer. The longer answer...

NC State and Clemson were ahead of Wake in advanced metrics. In ESPN's SP+, Clemson was 8 (seems quite high to me, but whatever), NC State is 13 and Wake is 39th, for example. Sagarin (another analytical thing I check) now has Clemson at 8, State at 17 and Wake at 21. It's similar with ESPN's FPI. You get the point.

I viewed those 3 ACC teams as kind of a jumble. Wake beat NC State which beat Clemson which beat Wake. At that point, it comes down to other things. Wake had some unimpressive wins over Army (56 points allowed!), Louisville and Syracuse, plus a 24-point loss to Pitt. State crushed Louisville and Syracuse, while Clemson was more competitive against Pitt.

You mention, correctly, the extra Wake win. But consider the schedule. Clemson had a one-score loss against a Georgia team playing in the national championship. That's more impressive than any Wake non-con win. NC State lost at a top-40 Mississippi State team. That's probably more impressive than beating Army 70-56.

So add that all up, and that's why I put them in that order.

Appreciated the guy detailing his thoughts even if I don't agree with it all, thought the perspective was interesting to share here.
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It's all sensible except for the bolded part. A big loss is not more impressive than a big win.

And where is the mention of Louisiana Tech? That was a tighter game than Wake's @ Army, but was in Raleigh, and Louisiana Tech is really bad.
 
Nc State trailed Louisville into the 4th quarter. Hard to call that a “crushing”
 
WFU Lurker said:
It's all sensible except for the bolded part. A big loss is not more impressive than a big win.

And where is the mention of Louisiana Tech? That was a tighter game than Wake's @ Army, but was in Raleigh, and Louisiana Tech is really bad.
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Exactly. Wake played 12 regular season games and won 10 of them, including against State. I think you need to look at head to head first when comparing teams that have actually played each other.
 
Wake was 7-3 against the ten bowl teams they played. NCSU was 4-3 against the 7 bowl teams they played. Clemson was 5-3 against the 8 bowl teams they played.
 
Wake beat State on the field of play. Simple metric for me.
 
A good team finds a way to win. Wake found a way to win our bowl game. State didn’t with theirs.

Check. Mate.
 
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