Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 73

Thread: Djokovic Visa Revoked Again -- Thoughts?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by EatLeadCommie View Post
    If he had Covid last month, the case for him not playing because he isn't vaccinated is pretty weak. If you want to say vaccination plus natural immunity is better than natural immunity, then great. But his natural immunity, particularly if it is from last month, should be sufficient. It's on par with vaccination. I am amazed at how stubborn policy makers still are in not carving out exceptions for natural immunity. That doesn't mean that your natural immunity is good forever, but it should buy you a certain amount of time. Say 6 months worth?
    There are many significant problems with using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination. The main issue is that it is completely variable how much immunity it provides - how much COVID exposure is needed to cause natural immunity equal to vaccination? With COVID vaccines we know how much each person received and the dosing has been specifically studied and is based on age - for the Pfizer product (Comirnaty), for example, 0.3 ml is given intramuscularly to people age 16 and older, twice, separated by 21 days (with the potential for a booster.) In addition, if natural immunity were to be used, would that be based on symptoms, rapid testing, PCR, or a combination of these? How would false positive results be handled? One might argue to use antibody levels following infection, but that is unsettled science and doesn't take into consideration T cell and other immunity. Using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination is not a feasible approach.
    Last edited by Rafi; 01-14-2022 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #22
    I guess I won't watch the Australian Open this year. Not sure what I'll do with myself.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BiffTannen View Post
    I guess I won't watch the Australian Open this year. Not sure what I'll do with myself.
    sleep, probably

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
    There are many significant problems with using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination. The main issue is that it is completely variable how much immunity it provides - how much COVID exposure is needed to cause natural immunity equal to vaccination? With COVID vaccines we know how much each person received and the dosing has been specifically study and is based on age - for the Pfizer product (Comirnaty), for example, 0.3 ml is given intramuscularly to people age 16 and older, twice, separated by 21 days (with the potential for a booster.) In addition, if natural immunity were to be used, would that be based on symptoms, rapid testing, PCR, or a combination of these? How would false positive results be handled? One might argue to use antibody levels following infection, but that is unsettled science and doesn't take into consideration T cell and other immunity. Using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination is not a feasible approach.
    Thank you

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaDeac View Post
    sleep, probably
    I see what you did there....

  6. #26
    I am not a contrarian lbdeac94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lake Bluff, IL
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by BiffTannen View Post
    I guess I won't watch the Australian Open this year. Not sure what I'll do with myself.
    Start a Ty Hardimon appreciation thread?

  7. #27
    Fuck this dude. Iíve literally never heard of him before all this stuff. ( I donít follow tennis if you canít tell)

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SC DEAC View Post
    Fuck this dude. Iíve literally never heard of him before all this stuff. ( I donít follow tennis if you canít tell)
    it's one thing to not follow tennis, it's another to not know who the arguable GOAT of the sport is

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaDeac View Post
    it's one thing to not follow tennis, it's another to not know who the arguable GOAT of the sport is
    Are we talking about Serena now?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bym051d View Post
    Are we talking about Serena now?
    *men's GOAT

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
    There are many significant problems with using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination. The main issue is that it is completely variable how much immunity it provides - how much COVID exposure is needed to cause natural immunity equal to vaccination? With COVID vaccines we know how much each person received and the dosing has been specifically studied and is based on age - for the Pfizer product (Comirnaty), for example, 0.3 ml is given intramuscularly to people age 16 and older, twice, separated by 21 days (with the potential for a booster.) In addition, if natural immunity were to be used, would that be based on symptoms, rapid testing, PCR, or a combination of these? How would false positive results be handled? One might argue to use antibody levels following infection, but that is unsettled science and doesn't take into consideration T cell and other immunity. Using natural immunity as a replacement for vaccination is not a feasible approach.
    Understood, but I'm not saying to replace natural immunity with vaccination. I'm saying apply some common sense to people who have had recent infections. There is plenty of evidence out there to suggest that somebody who just had Covid isn't going to get it for a while (though with Omicron, everything appears to be out the window). 90 days is a pretty good standard, while some estimates may go as high as 6 months. If you start getting into false positives and every potential ifs/ands/buts/coconuts scenario, you'll never get anywhere. That's like crafting policy around bogus vaccination cards. I assume they are studying antibody levels in all this, but nobody has come and checked out my T cells post vaccination, nor would I expect them to. The data says the vaccinations are effective, and the data says natural immunity is effective, both up to a point where you are going to need a booster or a re-infection.

  12. #32
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever
    PhDeac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    128,166
    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaDeac View Post
    *men's GOAT
    Pretty sure he knows who Federer is though.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Pretty sure he knows who Federer is though.
    well I said arguable. I side with Fed but a lot of people go Joker. it's just crazy to me to be a sports fan and not know who he is.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by EatLeadCommie View Post
    Understood, but I'm not saying to replace natural immunity with vaccination. I'm saying apply some common sense to people who have had recent infections. There is plenty of evidence out there to suggest that somebody who just had Covid isn't going to get it for a while (though with Omicron, everything appears to be out the window). 90 days is a pretty good standard, while some estimates may go as high as 6 months. If you start getting into false positives and every potential ifs/ands/buts/coconuts scenario, you'll never get anywhere. That's like crafting policy around bogus vaccination cards. I assume they are studying antibody levels in all this, but nobody has come and checked out my T cells post vaccination, nor would I expect them to. The data says the vaccinations are effective, and the data says natural immunity is effective, both up to a point where you are going to need a booster or a re-infection.
    Try to imagine implementing this. Are you just going to take someone's word for it that they were infected, or would you require a positive rapid antigen test (or a PCR)? There are a lot of people that are certain they had covid, never tested, and then get antibody levels done and they are zero. Next, how much immunity does a positive rapid antigen without symptoms confer; how about very mild symptoms with just a headache? The answer is, nobody knows - it hasn't been studied to that level. Across a population, a positive rapid antigen test with no symptoms may only provide 14 days of immunity, or maybe less, it just isn't known.

  15. #35
    Didnít CNN say it was a crime for Russians to have online opinions about our politics? Why do they have an opinions about Australian politics?

    Just to clarify if read by Australian government, I donít have an opinion. I donít want to get indicted.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaDeac View Post
    *men's GOAT
    Djoker is going to be the goat, even better than serena. No doubt he's faced better competition. The 2/3 best of all time have been around his whole career.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
    Try to imagine implementing this. Are you just going to take someone's word for it that they were infected, or would you require a positive rapid antigen test (or a PCR)? There are a lot of people that are certain they had covid, never tested, and then get antibody levels done and they are zero. Next, how much immunity does a positive rapid antigen without symptoms confer; how about very mild symptoms with just a headache? The answer is, nobody knows - it hasn't been studied to that level. Across a population, a positive rapid antigen test with no symptoms may only provide 14 days of immunity, or maybe less, it just isn't known.
    No I wouldn't take their word for it. There should be documentation for the positive test. I'm given to understand that Djokovic has it, and that it was the PCR that came out positive after a rapid test was negative. If he doesn't, then some apprehension on the part of the Aussie govt is justified.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by donaldross View Post
    Didnít CNN say it was a crime for Russians to have online opinions about our politics? Why do they have an opinions about Australian politics?

    Just to clarify if read by Australian government, I donít have an opinion. I donít want to get indicted.
    ^^ THIS is the bigger issue here.

  19. #39

    Djokovic Visa Revoked Again -- Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Pretty sure he knows who Federer is though.
    I absolutely know who Federer is and I even saw a video of him laughing at this clown but Iím pretty sure that video was fake. Anyway, I keep up with all kinds of sports but mens tennis is so far down on the list that I never heard of a guy who is supposed to be really good, but now I know he is just an assclown.
    Last edited by SC DEAC; 01-14-2022 at 04:43 PM.

  20. #40
    He wants to play tennis in one of the three countries in the world that has most seriously dealt with Covid from a public policy and restrictions standpoint.

    This policy is generally strongly supported by the Australian population.

    Australia is a sovereign nation. Whether their admittance rules make sense (vaccine vs natural immunity) is for them to decide. ("Making sense" isn't purely a matter of measuring antibodies. Does it make sense to incent someone get Covid so that they can refuse a vaccine but still get around your admittance rules? You could say "who cares what he does in Serbia" but what about the Australians thus incented by some set of rules.)

    They should have followed reasonable due process when he arrived, and given the judge no reason to allow him to stay. And apologized while kicking him out, for the botched handling. I wouldn't give him a three-year bar for deportation under the circumstances. However, he does not meet the Australian border restrictions... no matter what event is happy to admit him or others once they are in-country.

    That's my take, but I'm an American, not an Australian. We kick out of the US with no due process thousands of people seeking entry with a lot better reasons than he had to have consideration to circumstances given. We are blocking people from entering and making valid asylum claims, merely pretending it is because of public health, and then - unlike Australia - not also demonstrating seriousness in-country consistent with our border stance. It would be inconsistent for Australia to let him in. Frankly, it would be inconsistent for us to let him across our borders too. We turn away vaccinated individuals every day at the border with no hearing whatsoever...
    Last edited by DemonDeke; 01-14-2022 at 05:04 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •