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Ukraine is game to you?

I don’t agree with the binary “good guy/bad guy” dichotomy being applied here. I think there are multiple bad actors here, with the US being a constant bad actor in every scenario.

So much discussion here completely flattens every world events into “bad guy did x, how will we respond”. The dispute between Soviet bloc borders didn’t exactly start yesterday, and the US has an established history of meddling with those former Soviet governments for the purposes of influencing the determination toward Europe and against Russia.

Except in the case where one country is attempting to invade and annex another country, there is a good/bad dichotomy and the invader is clearly the bad guy. It's been 75 years since the US annexed sovereign territory. It's been 8 for Russia, and that is absolutely their intention with the Ukraine.
 
Maybe if Russia didn't want places like Ukraine to be "turned" towards the west, they could like...treat them better?


Nah...easier to just annex, dominate, oppress.
 
Except in the case where one country is attempting to invade and annex another country, there is a good/bad dichotomy and the invader is clearly the bad guy. It's been 75 years since the US annexed sovereign territory. It's been 8 for Russia, and that is absolutely their intention with the Ukraine.

You are flattening the discourse, as I said before. The border between Russia and Ukraine has changed multiple times in my lifetime, and I am relatively young. Many older Ukrainian citizens were born Russians. Euro-Soviet politics are fucking complicated - for every treaty and accord that the west believes is settled there are legitimate alternate accounts of coups and foreign interference. Fuck, Putin’s existence as President is in large part due to western oligarchs picking apart the Russian economy-post Soviet collapse. Simply trusting the western media account (especially American)of every event is beyond naive.
 
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Even right now in America this entire situation is being reduced to ignorant partisan bullshit: Trumpublicans support Putin and don’t give a shit about Ukrainian independence. Biden Democrats just want to spread NATO global gay liberalism to the Ukraine even if the people there don’t want it
 
 
Even right now in America this entire situation is being reduced to ignorant partisan bullshit: Trumpublicans support Putin and don’t give a shit about Ukrainian independence. Biden Democrats just want to spread NATO global gay liberalism to the Ukraine even if the people there don’t want it

So is it possible for the US to be a "good guy" here? If so, how?
 
So is it possible for the US to be a "good guy" here? If so, how?

I generally don’t think it’s helpful to think about geopolitics in stark binary terms, but of course there have been many exceptions to that in history.

So rather than discuss good guys/bad guys I’ll say what I think could be most improved is if the US government and national media were more forthright in explaining the American economic interest in Ukraine, and what events we believe have led up to this moment and why. Instead of being forthright, we are throwing out red meat by only portraying this moment as random and Putin as a mad man with inexplicable motivation because *we know* that’s the recipe to convince Americans to support a war. Americans can seemingly only understand geopolitics through a narrative of good guys vs villains.
 
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OK. You knew what I was going for there, but you tend to think of message board debates as a binary between you and dumbasses who aren't as smart or moral as you. But I'll ask the question again.

Is it possible for the US to be a positive force toward de-escalating this conflict? I don't think anybody is portraying this as random. Instead I think it's portrayed as Putin being Putin as part of an ongoing effort to expand Russian territory and influence. There needs to be a reachable goal for any diplomatic or military response.
 
It's not like Putin has given us a recent example of invading a sovereign country...
 
MDMH would rather drill down to some obscure geopolitical detail like a post WW2 American armed services members from New Jersey farted and killed some Easter Europeans soybean crop in 1973. Instead of you know certain things like invading a sovereign nation just being bad
 
It’s amazing how much some people hate this country but can’t bring themselves to live elsewhere or take a pragmatic approach to incrementally improving anything.
 
Macron announces Biden-Putin Ukraine Summit!!
 
It’s amazing how much some people hate this country but can’t bring themselves to live elsewhere or take a pragmatic approach to incrementally improving anything.

What the fuck are you talking about? I was born here, it’s not like I choose this country. Regarding leaving - my entire family is here! In real life people can’t just emigrate because they don’t like the fucking politics of their country! Regarding “pragmatism”, bitching on an internet forum has nothing to do with pragmatism. The pragmatic thing would not be wasting time debating with you. Do you think your snarky bullshit posts are somehow a better use of time? We’re all just pissing into a sea of piss on these rjkarl boards
 
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Also Biff, congrats on reaching the “If you don’t like it you can GET OUT” level of stupid conservatism. Your honorary truck nuts are in the mail.
 
So these rjkarl boards as like tiktok and you and biff are both content creators. Who's gonna have more likes? Rep looks like it's MDMH in a landslide.
 
Also Biff, congrats on reaching the “If you don’t like it you can GET OUT” level of stupid conservatism. Your honorary truck nuts are in the mail.

Is that any worse than reaching the "regurgitate Russian propaganda" level?
 
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