Notre Dame

Since I'm on a Wake basketball high and surrounded by their obnoxious fans (here in New England, which is a whole other gripe), why does the ACC continue to entertain them as a half member? What revenue could they possibly be bringing in that makes this worth it? Is it simply keeping them out of some other football conference? They're clearly not ever joining the ACC as a full member. If that was going to happen, it would have happened during Covid. What is the point of catering to this non-East Coast, zero- ACC tradition school and making special rules for them?

I will say this was all brought on by a fan who just told me that ND has done more for the ACC in the short time that it's been a member than Wake ever has.

- ACC gets 5 conference football games a year on national TV
- A national fan base for Olympic sport, that support a regional based conference

Basically its about football money. Notre has no incentive to join the ACC, because they are taken care of by the TV networks in football and as long as that happens they will stay independent. ACC would rather have some part of it than none of it.

TimmyClutch said:

- ACC gets 5 conference football games a year on national TV
- A national fan base for Olympic sport, that support a regional based conference

Basically its about football money. Notre has no incentive to join the ACC, because they are taken care of by the TV networks in football and as long as that happens they will stay independent. ACC would rather have some part of it than none of it.

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Are 5 games really that significant? I guess I'm blinded by my hate for them and their overinflated sense of academic and sports superiority and bandwagon fans who watched Rudy once. I just don't understand treating them differently than every other school.

It gets worse, the ACC actually pays Notre Dame 5.8 million a year for being a member of the ACC. Notre Dame is the 7th most valuable college program, so the ACC is happy to get some of that.

I understand where you are coming from. I married a girl from a catholic midwestern family, and when she chose somewhere other than Notre Dame for college, her family acted as if she spit on the cross. You can name 5 other schools that are just as highly regarded as Notre Dame and all they will say is "Never Heard of it." It is something like 99.9% of ND fans did not attend the school, as opposed to Wake which is 3%. Notre Dame has a built in National fan base with the Irish Catholics (probably more ND fans in Boston than BC fans) and as long as that is the case they will get special treatment.

WF was a founding member, not sure it's possible to do "more" for a league than that. Without WF's contributions, there's nothing for ND to pillage

How many national championships has ND won since joining the conference? I know Wake has won a few.

awakegirl said:

Since I'm on a Wake basketball high and surrounded by their obnoxious fans (here in New England, which is a whole other gripe), why does the ACC continue to entertain them as a half member? What revenue could they possibly be bringing in that makes this worth it? Is it simply keeping them out of some other football conference? They're clearly not ever joining the ACC as a full member. If that was going to happen, it would have happened during Covid. What is the point of catering to this non-East Coast, zero- ACC tradition school and making special rules for them?

I will say this was all brought on by a fan who just told me that ND has done more for the ACC in the short time that it's been a member than Wake ever has.

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I share your inquiry. Wake agreed to it, but I would be interested to know what the money answer actually quantifies for Wake since we did it.

devi8 said:

WF was a founding member, not sure it's possible to do "more" for a league than that. Without WF's contributions, there's nothing for ND to pillage

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This was my basic response. I just put ND on my list of schools I'm never paying for my kids to attend.

1976Deac said:

I share your inquiry. Wake agreed to it, but I would be interested to know what the money answer actually quantifies for Wake since we did it.

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I'd like to know this also. Doesn't help that Hatch was the president when Wake agreed to this.

ND joined the ACC in 2013. They have won the Natty in Women's Hoop 2018, and in Fencing (yes, there is a natty in Fencing) in 2017, 2018 and 2021. They won the Men's soccer College Cup in 2013 and lost in the Finals in 2021. Their Lax team has made the Lax Final 4 a couple of times since joining the ACC.

The ACC's reaps two benefits from ND playing 5 games a year against the ACC:

- It pumps up the ACC football contract as the ACC owns the TV rights to 15 ND games every 6 years (the ACC owns the rights to the home games of conference members); as sad as this sounds, that may be the most attractive aspect of the ACC Football TV rights. Every ACC school receives TV money bump because of it.
- By affiliating with the ACC, the thinking is that if ND does ever join a conference, it is most likely the ACC (not sure how true that is)

At a minimum would like to see ND move to playing 6 ACC teams a year. There is less than ZERO chance that the ACC gives ND an "join the conference as a full-time football member or F off" ultimatum.

Also, not sure why this is the case, but ND plays only 4 ACC teams in 2022 (@UNC, Clemson, @Cuse, BC), but plays 6 in 2023, including hosting the Deacs on October 28, 2023

Pilchard said:

- By affiliating with the ACC, the thinking is that if ND does ever join a conference, it is most likely the ACC (not sure how true that is)

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If the playoffs expand it's much less likely, I only see ND joining if they consistently get left out of playoffs due to lack of conference championship game

Which is only going to happen if playoff expansion favors conference champs which it won't because ND's AD is on the committee and as has the same vote as each P5 rep.

TimmyClutch said:

It gets worse, the ACC actually pays Notre Dame 5.8 million a year for being a member of the ACC. Notre Dame is the 7th most valuable college program, so the ACC is happy to get some of that.

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Can you expand on this? Is the $5.8M ND's share of the ACC football revenue that each school gets or from some other source?

awakegirl said:

This was my basic response. I just put ND on my list of schools I'm never paying for my kids to attend.

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You probably just jinxed yourself.

I'm so over having ND football as a "scheduling partner". The first time they came to W-S it was a HUGE deal; lot's of build-up and excitement. The 2nd time thru, not so much. And the next time around, given it's non-con status, I'd clearly prefer a home win over say Clemson, NCSU or UNC. As for a trip to South Bend, after seeing Touchdown Jesus once, I'm good for the rest of my life: give me a trip to say Oxford, MS or Nashville any day.
So to answer your "friend", we basically use ND for the $$ their football program brings (mostly from eyeballs outside of ACC country) and it's much appreciated , but when it comes to the other 15 or so sports that ND competes in as a conference member, being stuck in the Midwest hundreds of miles from most of the other schools much less the Atlantic Ocean, means that those teams will always be considered the ugly friend who gets invited to the party just so your hot friend will tag along.

I guess the conference can swap those nationally televised games against ND for more time on Bally or the ACC Network.

If you took ND off Wake's schedule we'd just replace it with a Rice or Uconn or some random team. Having ND on the schedule certainly benefits Wake more than it does ND and I can hate on them as much as I hate on UNC or State. How else are going to get ND to freakin' Winston-Salem unless it's mandatory. It's a win-win for Wake.

Buttermaker said:

Can you expand on this? Is the $5.8M ND's share of the ACC football revenue that each school gets or from some other source?

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Its for being a partial member of the ACC. They get a partial share of the total ACC revenue, while also keeping the money they get from their NBC tv deal.

As a member of the ACC, ND shares in all of the income that the conference receives outside of football. FWIW, the $5.8 million payout for non-football related income underscores how important football is to financial health.

Pilchard said:

As a member of the ACC, ND shares in all of the income that the conference receives outside of football. FWIW, the $5.8 million payout for non-football related income underscores how important football is to financial health.

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ACC paid out $32.3M last year. That means $26.5M is from football. It's 5x more valuable than every other ACC sport combined which is pretty crazy. Although basketball would be a lot more lucrative if the conferences owned the NCAA Tournament like they own the CFB postseason. I think only 20% of the $1B yearly NCAAT TV money gets paid out to schools. The other 80% funds the entire NCAA.