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Chris Paul: "[The 05 Team] Should Have Won the Championship"

By the way, the Deacon was much yellower back then in a Bart Simpson kind of way (and prior to that)

we seem to have consciously made him more obviously Caucasian recently
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Duke had some lean years too. Especially 1995 IIRC.
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Yes but ...

1993 Wake 98 @ 86 dook (#3)
1994 Wake 69 @ 68 dook (#2)
1995 Wake 62 @ 61 dook (unranked but was #11 earlier in the season)
1996 Wake 57 @ 54 dook (#19)
1997 Wake 81 @ 69 dook (#10)

Not overly lean.
 
Deac83 said:
Yes but ...

1993 Wake 98 @ 86 dook (#3)
1994 Wake 69 @ 68 dook (#2)
1995 Wake 62 @ 61 dook (unranked but was #11 earlier in the season)
1996 Wake 57 @ 54 dook (#19)
1997 Wake 81 @ 69 dook (#10)

Not overly lean.
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Since then...

1998 duke #2
1999 duke #1
2000 duke #2
2001 duke #2
2002 duke #1
2003 duke #1
2004 duke #2
2005 duke #7
2006 duke #2
2007 duke #14
2008 DNP @ duke
2009 duke #9
2010 duke #8
2011 DNP @ duke
2012 duke #4
2013 duke #1
2014 duke #11
2015 duke #3
2016 duke #17
2017 duke #12
2018 duke #7
2019 duke #4
2020 duke #2
2021 duke #21
2022 duke #9

We had some chances in there, but they were consistently a lot better in the 2020 years post-Duncan than in the 3 years of his prime. The lesson learned from this, is that you win more games when you have NBA players on your roster.
 
thatguy2016 said:
By the way, the Deacon was much yellower back then in a Bart Simpson kind of way (and prior to that)

we seem to have consciously made him more obviously Caucasian recently
Click to expand...

I noticed that at the Louisville game - The Deacon is pasty!
 
Man, I still remember the night of the WVU like it was yesterday. I left dinner thinking Wake had it in the bag with a 40-27 halftime lead and got home to see the game tied midway through the second half. The rest was history.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Since then...

We had some chances in there, but they were consistently a lot better in the 2020 years post-Duncan than in the 3 years of his prime. The lesson learned from this, is that you win more games when you have NBA players on your roster.
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I believe we hold the record for most consecutive losses at Cameron, certainly in conference. Maybe a few of the newer teams have not won there, but most have found a way. This wasn't about why we haven't won there just pointing out dook primarily sucked in one year, when their team of McD's couldn't get out of their own way. And the two down years were our best years.

Depending on how you want to measure it, JoHo-CP3 had 6 shots at them (4 if you say JoHo really bloomed in his Jr/Sr years).
 
Deac83 said:
I believe we hold the record for most consecutive losses at Cameron, certainly in conference. Maybe a few of the newer teams have not won there, but most have found a way. This wasn't about why we haven't won there just pointing out dook primarily sucked in one year, when their team of McD's couldn't get out of their own way. And the two down years were our best years.

Depending on how you want to measure it, JoHo-CP3 had 6 shots at them (4 if you say JoHo really bloomed in his Jr/Sr years).
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The 2009 loss at Duke is the last time where I felt we were the better team. We were ranked #8, Duke was ranked #9. Duke had lost 3 of 4 conference games. We got down by 22 in the first half, ended up losing by 10.
 
Clemson hasn't won in Cameron since they threw K's back out in 1995, but they haven't played there as often, so their streak is "only" 20

In other words, if WF can win there next year, countdown to Clemson owning the longest streak
 
ProbationDeac said:
The 2009 loss at Duke is the last time where I felt we were the better team. We were ranked #8, Duke was ranked #9. Duke had lost 3 of 4 conference games. We got down by 22 in the first half, ended up losing by 10.
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Honestly, 08-09 is probably our best team. While 1995 and 2005 had the better individual player, we’ve never had a team with more pros than that one. Cleveland State loss just looks worse and worse every year it’s in the rear view.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Honestly, 08-09 is probably our best team. While 1995 and 2005 had the better individual player, we’ve never had a team with more pros than that one. Cleveland State loss just looks worse and worse every year it’s in the rear view.
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NBA salaries from that team to date:

Teague $100 million
JJ $79 million
AFA $61 million
Ish $45 million (through 2023)

Total $285 million
 
That team was good and obviously has had a ton of NBA contributors, but it wasn’t as good as the other teams for one reason — that team couldn’t shoot. At all. They took only good 3s, less than just about anyone else in the country and still struggled to shoot 30%. And looking at the next year and those player’s NBA careers, that wasn’t a fluke. You can overcome a lot of different deficiencies with size/talent, but inability to shoot is just the one you can’t make up for.
 
Haros said:
That team was good and obviously has had a ton of NBA contributors, but it wasn’t as good as the other teams for one reason — that team couldn’t shoot. At all. They took only good 3s, less than just about anyone else in the country and still struggled to shoot 30%. And looking at the next year and those player’s NBA careers, that wasn’t a fluke. You can overcome a lot of different deficiencies with size/talent, but inability to shoot is just the one you can’t make up for.
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couldn't shoot 3's. they could shoot 2's just fine.

they were 15th in the nation in 2-pt FG% at 53.6%, which is a WF school record until this year's team will shatter it, and a respectable 54th in eFG%
 
As crazy as it seems, this year's team looks more like an NBA team than that team. This team has 4 or 5 players on the court at all times who can shoot from 3. Plenty of guys can guard multiple positions and there is position flexibility.
 
thatguy2016 said:
couldn't shoot 3's. they could shoot 2's just fine.

they were 15th in the nation in 2-pt FG% at 53.6%, which is a WF school record until this year's team will shatter it, and a respectable 54th in eFG%
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Don’t get me wrong I loved that team and they were very good, but down the stretch it was noticeable and maybe the biggest topic of conversation around that team. At some point teams would just pack the paint and dare them to shoot from the outside. And we either a) wouldn’t shoot and our 2% suffered and/or b) we’d take them up on the open looks and usually we suffered. Maryland in the ACCT was the most glaring example of it but we saw it a lot down the stretch during our collapse once the scouting report was out. We then tried to win with bully ball and we had enough talent that it still worked a decent amount, but good teams had that trump card against us down the stretch and we had no answer.

Our effective Fg% was under 50 in 8 of our last 15 games. Under 35% in two of those where we had zero answers offensively when teams schemed us well. We were 52.0% eFG in conference play, good for second then but would be just 7th in this year’s ACC.

By comparison we’ve been under 50% just 6 times all this year, under 40% once (LSU).
 
Haros said:
That team was good and obviously has had a ton of NBA contributors, but it wasn’t as good as the other teams for one reason — that team couldn’t shoot. At all. They took only good 3s, less than just about anyone else in the country and still struggled to shoot 30%. And looking at the next year and those player’s NBA careers, that wasn’t a fluke. You can overcome a lot of different deficiencies with size/talent, but inability to shoot is just the one you can’t make up for.
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agree shooting was a weakness that made that team less than the sum of its parts, but i also believe (i probably make this post once a year) that we had a horrible team strategy that exacerbated the weaknesses: we tried to play fast on offense, but played a defensive strategy that is totally ill-equipped for a fast tempo offense because it doesn't force turnovers and leaves you suspectible on the defensive boards unless you crash the glass with your whole team bc you front the post.

here's the profile of that team: https://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?year=2009&team=Wake+Forest

especially with the dudes we had, we should have played aggressive defense trying to force defense and get easy baskets.
 
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