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Long Covid Thread

Tobacco Road said:
“Many doctors” is typically the start of a bullshit argument. I am very sorry for all that you have been through from the virus. The media article you provided communicates quite clearly that there is not good evidence for long COVID from vaccination.
Continuing efforts to discredit vaccines that save lives and dramatically reduce morbidity from SARS COV-2 is (at best) irresponsible. Maybe it is a coping mechanism if you weren’t vaccinated prior to infection.
Again, i am very sorry for all that you have been through. I’m also extremely frustrated (I’m actually infuriated) by people spreading, and reinforcing, misinformation that leads to harm for others.

Medicines and vaccines absolutely have side effect profiles that we have to respect, thoroughly evaluate and acknowledge. I spend hours daily encouraging lifestyle measures to help people avoid disease and medications. I appreciate the intro comment in the article that we cannot dismiss side effects as it undermines vaccine recommendations. But, we also don’t make them up. I’m intrigued to take a look if you have evidence of long COVID from vaccination.
I’ve gone down a lot of rabbit holes trying to make sure I’m not a victim of medical group think. So far, it’s all been bullshit.
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BacktoBack said:
Well said on all accounts.
I've given up on the people that care so little to get readily available information and do the right thing. I'm sure that makes me a bad person / doctor. But I see it like smoking. You can do whatever you want. But the effects aren't a mystery. So good luck with all that.
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No one in this thread, or that article, is arguing or making effort "to discredit vaccines that save lives and dramatically reduce morbidity from SARS COV-2"

One can admit that the vaccine is good for 99/100 people while also admitting it has negative effects on the 1/100 (made up numbers, I don't know what the real numbers are, neither do you). That's the problem with the back and forth vaccine argument. The truth is in the middle. It has likely saved millions of lives but there are a select few that have had their lives ruined from it. Why can you not believe that is true and push for those that were negatively affected by it to get the help they now need?

What rabbit holes have you gone down? It took my 25 seconds on google. Other countries have already setup vaccine injury programs that have started to investigate, and approve, claims of COVID-19 vaccine injuries. When's the US going to start? (we both know they won't) :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...yout-1.6472636

https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202206160004

Two posters on this board have PM'ed me that they were injured by the vaccine. It's folks like you that make it where they can't come out and have an open conversation about what is happening with their health. Hopefully somewhere down the line, it becomes normalized to admit in rare instances, the vaccine can have negative effects on ones health.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
No one in this thread, or that article, is arguing or making effort "to discredit vaccines that save lives and dramatically reduce morbidity from SARS COV-2"

One can admit that the vaccine is good for 99/100 people while also admitting it has negative effects on the 1/100 (made up numbers, I don't know what the real numbers are, neither do you). That's the problem with the back and forth vaccine argument. The truth is in the middle. It has likely saved millions of lives but there are a select few that have had their lives ruined from it. Why can you not believe that is true and push for those that were negatively affected by it to get the help they now need?

What rabbit holes have you gone down? It took my 25 seconds on google. Other countries have already setup vaccine injury programs that have started to investigate, and approve, claims of COVID-19 vaccine injuries. When's the US going to start? (we both know they won't) :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...yout-1.6472636

https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202206160004

Two posters on this board have PM'ed me that they were injured by the vaccine. It's folks like you that make it where they can't come out and have an open conversation about what is happening with their health. Hopefully somewhere down the line, it becomes normalized to admit in rare instances, the vaccine can have negative effects on ones health.
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How are you so sure that those 1 out of 100 people got sick from the vaccine? How do you control for all the other factors that could’ve made them sick?
 
Guillain-Barré Syndrome is certainly not Long Covid and a well known extremely rare side effect of almost every vaccine. You get pushback because you stated in your exact rant why, numbers, it’s always numbers.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
Guillain-Barré Syndrome is certainly not Long Covid and a well known extremely rare side effect of almost every vaccine. You get pushback because you stated in your exact rant why, numbers, it’s always numbers.
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"Long Covid" is just a broad term to describe a wide number of existing symptoms and illnesses. Guillain-Barré Syndrome, POTS, ME/CFS, Dysautonomia, etc.
 
I mean you can do whatever you want because you are just googling shit but Guillain-Barré Syndrome wouldn’t be classified as long covid because it has a known mechanism and associates with a constellations of other infections.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
"Long Covid" is just a broad term to describe a wide number of existing symptoms and illnesses. Guillain-Barré Syndrome, POTS, ME/CFS, Dysautonomia, etc.
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I would agree with Long COVID can (in some people) share some signs and symptoms with some of the syndromes you listed, but I definitely do not consider it to be an umbrella term that encompasses known and existing syndromes.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
One can admit that the vaccine is good for 99/100 people while also admitting it has negative effects on the 1/100 (made up numbers, I don't know what the real numbers are, neither do you).
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These are definitely knowable numbers and you are orders of magnitude off on the rate of long term negative affects from the Covid vaccines. Just making numbers up and throwing them out there is real Col Angus territory, and that not a good place to be intellectually.
 
birdman said:
These are definitely knowable numbers and you are orders of magnitude off on the rate of long term negative affects from the Covid vaccines. Just making numbers up and throwing them out there is real Col Angus territory, and that not a good place to be intellectually.
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Yeah that's fair. My point was that it is a non-zero number, which seems to be the counter argument here. All I stated in my opening post was that it was a real thing. Then the gaslighting braintrust hopped in and argued otherwise.
 
WakeBored said:
Take it to the Tunnels BBD
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“Let’s discuss the government’s response to an unprecedented public health situation but please no politics”

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Screamindemon3 said:
Yeah that's fair. My point was that it is a non-zero number, which seems to be the counter argument here. All I stated in my opening post was that it was a real thing. Then the gaslighting braintrust hopped in and argued otherwise.
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Here is some data:
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-vaccine-statistics-rare-side-effects-of-covid-19-vaccines

Myocarditis occurred in 0.000845% of patients.

Blood Clots occurred in 0.00038% who got the JJ vaccine.

Waaaaaaaaaay less than 1%.

Here is a Science magazine article on long term COVID like symptoms form the vaccine:
science.org/content/article/rare-cases-coronavirus-vaccines-may-cause-long-covid-symptoms

The author uses phrases like "extremely rare" but does not offer raw data. Says no one is really tracking it, which to me implies there are not enough cases to get big enough sample sizes to publish a paper.
 
This was definitely a political point

Other countries have already setup vaccine injury programs that have started to investigate, and approve, claims of COVID-19 vaccine injuries. When's the US going to start? (we both know they won't)
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To be clear, I don't think anyone is arguing that vaccine side effects are not real. They are obviously real, just incredibly rare. I think docs are generally pretty touchy about it because there is so much fear mongering and BS out there (OMG LOOK AT THE VAERS REPORTS!!!!!) that have blown the actual risk way out of proportion, contributing to the vaccine hesitancy that has lead to hundreds of thousands of extra deaths in our country.
 
Just follow the logic trail and you understand how any conversation is going to go off the rails. There’s definitions for things it’s how you get a medical diagnosis and there is one for long covid as well. It’s probably not neat and tidy which is a problem but it does exist. Say someone that was hospitalized and had their lungs absolutely wrecked by covid and now are fatigued and have difficulty breathing do they have long covid, no it’s cause is well known and defined. Does someone that gets Guillain-Barré syndrome have long covid, no they have Guillain-Barré syndrome caused by covid, just like if it was caused by CMV or EBV, and the rare case a vaccine like the flu shot or zoster vaccine. So then here’s where making up definitions creates things that are misleading.
1. The covid vaccine causes long covid
2. Long covid is just a broad term it includes things like Guillain-Barré syndrome
The covid vaccine does cause things like Guillain-Barré syndrome at an extremely low low rate, just as a slew of other vaccines do but to call it long covid is wrong at best.
 
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