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On An Airplane Next To A Fat Guy

Agree with most of your post. I wasn't saying don't bring children on a flight, but if you do, you better be able to control your kids. Obviously you, Chic, etc have a good handle on being a parent. It's the parents that freak out if someone asks them to have their child stop kicking the back of the seat. If someone asked my parent to do this when I was a kid I would have been mortified and in big trouble with my parents. I flew a lot when I was a kid and I always had strangers complementing my parents on how I acted. They laid down the law pretty early on and taught me the right way to act in a public setting. Where there occasions when I acted up, of course, but you can be sure I heard about it right away from my parents and shaped up pretty quick. There are times when it seems like people are practically begging parents to control their kids and the parents don't care that their child is running around terrorizing everyone else in a shared space.

The issue with lackluster parents applies to flying, but could really be applied to a whole bunch of other situation, restaurants, malls, really any public place now a days.

I'd love to see numbers on the bolded part of your post. I might try and research that when I have a little more time this afternoon. Around holiday times there are a ton of parents on flights, but during other times in the year, especially during the week there are hardly any parents on flights. I don't know if families are single-handily subsidizing the airline industry.

I don't know the stats, Green. I do know that airlines have the option of either following FAA recommendations and mandating infants sit in their own seat or letting infants lapsit and they do the latter because doing the former would price out flying for some young families. I think in some respects, airlines may prefer having children on planes because a toddler weighs significantly less than an adult in the same seat.

You guys are just foolish. If you sit in coach, you get to sit with the unwashed masses (which includes kids). First class has rules about age for this reason. If you are such a fucking tool that you are going to yell at someone's 15 month old for kicking your seat, I hope die alone sucking your thumb. Get a life or a job that affords you the luxury of a first class ticket.

What are the age rules? I flew first class with my wife and son when he was 14 months and I sat beside a 6 or 7 year old girl who was traveling by herself who definitely looked like she had done it before. I couldn't imagine sending a child that age by herself and not putting her in first class.
 
I'm a lot more befuddled by the behavior of adults on an airplane than that of children.
 
What are the age rules? I flew first class with my wife and son when he was 14 months and I sat beside a 6 or 7 year old girl who was traveling by herself who definitely looked like she had done it before. I couldn't imagine sending a child that age by herself and not putting her in first class.

I flew alone in coach every summer starting around age 5. This was when unticketed people could still come all the way to the gate though. My parents would bring me to the gate, a stewardess would bring me to my seat, and then after the flight I'd meet my grandparents at the gate.
 
Kinda surprised at the support for the little kids in this debate - must be a lot of parents on the board. I agree with toogs. If your kid is too young to keep himself from kicking a seat or be quiet he shouldn't be on the plane. It's inconsiderate to everyone else on the plane. I can't really think of any reason that anyone would HAVE to take their young kid on a plane - either drive or have your relatives come visit you (which seems like the prudent thing to do so you don't have to travel with your young child to wherever they are).

I feel the same way about taking child out in public anywhere where they would need to behave themselves anyway. My wife and I don't have kids yet, but we've already decided we aren't taking them anywhere until they are old enough to act appropriately. If you want to go out, get a babysitter.

I think it would be interesting if you archived that quote and revisited it 2 or 3 years after you have kids. I used to feel the same way, but no longer. The main point being, the kid may be perfectly fine 90% of the time in public, but you have absolutely no control over when and where the other 10% will occur. So you either deal with it as it arises or live in fear like a hermit. We don't take our kid to Morton's, but if he goes apeshit in Chili's 10% of the time, that isn't enough to stop me from taking him out to eat. If he is really bad I will take him outside, but if he just yells once in a while I really don't give a fuck. People's kids bothered me every so often in a restaurant, so I don't care too much if mine bothers them on occasion.

As far as flying, our son is about 2 and he has been on about 10 plane flights. Out of those 10, there was 1 where he screamed a lot. It sucked, but there isn't anything you can do about it. And you can't not fly on the other 9 flights because of the 1 that may or may not occur.
 
Well said, 2&2. Another thing is that when you have kids, you realize that 20/30 somethings without kids are a pretty small portion of the population and a pretty insular self-absorbed group. In the 10% of times my kid acts up in public, I do get a few "control your kid" looks, but most of the looks are from people with kids/grandkids whose look says "I've been there. Good luck."
 
I think it would be interesting if you archived that quote and revisited it 2 or 3 years after you have kids. I used to feel the same way, but no longer. The main point being, the kid may be perfectly fine 90% of the time in public, but you have absolutely no control over when and where the other 10% will occur. So you either deal with it as it arises or live in fear like a hermit. We don't take our kid to Morton's, but if he goes apeshit in Chili's 10% of the time, that isn't enough to stop me from taking him out to eat. If he is really bad I will take him outside, but if he just yells once in a while I really don't give a fuck. People's kids bothered me every so often in a restaurant, so I don't care too much if mine bothers them on occasion.

As far as flying, our son is about 2 and he has been on about 10 plane flights. Out of those 10, there was 1 where he screamed a lot. It sucked, but there isn't anything you can do about it. And you can't not fly on the other 9 flights because of the 1 that may or may not occur.

The important thing is how you react in that 10% situation. Obviously your options are limited on an airplane, but both of my kids have been removed from a restaurant when they were barely three years old and forced to sit in the car with one parent while everyone else finished their dinner. It wasn't fun for anyone, but my daughter got the message after one episode. My son is a little more obstinate, but he understands that there are unhappy consequences if he keeps it up.
 
I think it would be interesting if you archived that quote and revisited it 2 or 3 years after you have kids. I used to feel the same way, but no longer. The main point being, the kid may be perfectly fine 90% of the time in public, but you have absolutely no control over when and where the other 10% will occur. So you either deal with it as it arises or live in fear like a hermit. We don't take our kid to Morton's, but if he goes apeshit in Chili's 10% of the time, that isn't enough to stop me from taking him out to eat. If he is really bad I will take him outside, but if he just yells once in a while I really don't give a fuck. People's kids bothered me every so often in a restaurant, so I don't care too much if mine bothers them on occasion.

As far as flying, our son is about 2 and he has been on about 10 plane flights. Out of those 10, there was 1 where he screamed a lot. It sucked, but there isn't anything you can do about it. And you can't not fly on the other 9 flights because of the 1 that may or may not occur.

The important thing is how you react in that 10% situation. Obviously your options are limited on an airplane, but both of my kids have been removed from a restaurant when they were barely three years old and forced to sit in the car with one parent while everyone else finished their dinner. It wasn't fun for anyone, but my daughter got the message after one episode. My son is a little more obstinate, but he understands that there are unhappy consequences if he keeps it up.

:werd:
 
I have a two year old who just turned two, so we played the child in lap game on his first 4 or 5 flights. Personally, just looking at the track record, there was no way I was buying an extra ticket for my son who already hates to be in the car seat as it is. Riding with a kid in lap is pretty easy, especially with two people. I was worried mostly about the noise - but honestly, the plane engines are loud enough that outside of taxi-ing and sitting on the plane you can rarely hear a kid who is more than 2 rows away from you.

Since my son turned 2, we have taken him on the plane twice - he hasn't had a problem kicking seats, his issue is he loves playing with the tray tables, opening, closing, opening, slamming. Personally, I feel embarrassed and make him stop - I realize I am the one subjecting the others to this, so I try to be as observant as possible. It is easier with him in his own seat (sans carseat) because he has a lot more room - I could not imagine taking the car seat with me, the inconvenience alone would kill me. I have flown enough, and I have been through some harrowing flights, but I am not flying in personal or prop planes - and I have never been through anything that would prove to me that using a car seat would have done anything different.
 
I agree. But I have an extremely health and safety conscious wife who insisted on the car seat until the last time we flew when I just left it outside the plane. He sat in his seat belt, couldn't reach the next seat, and did fine.
 
I have a two year old who just turned two, so we played the child in lap game on his first 4 or 5 flights. Personally, just looking at the track record, there was no way I was buying an extra ticket for my son who already hates to be in the car seat as it is. Riding with a kid in lap is pretty easy, especially with two people. I was worried mostly about the noise - but honestly, the plane engines are loud enough that outside of taxi-ing and sitting on the plane you can rarely hear a kid who is more than 2 rows away from you.

Since my son turned 2, we have taken him on the plane twice - he hasn't had a problem kicking seats, his issue is he loves playing with the tray tables, opening, closing, opening, slamming. Personally, I feel embarrassed and make him stop - I realize I am the one subjecting the others to this, so I try to be as observant as possible. It is easier with him in his own seat (sans carseat) because he has a lot more room - I could not imagine taking the car seat with me, the inconvenience alone would kill me. I have flown enough, and I have been through some harrowing flights, but I am not flying in personal or prop planes - and I have never been through anything that would prove to me that using a car seat would have done anything different.



Is a lap kid considered a carry on?
 
Is a lap kid considered a carry on?

Oddly enough, lap kids fly for free AND they get extra baggage for the parents to carry on.

I am debating about claiming he is 2 until he turns 5 or so - how could they prove otherwise? He just has gigantism.
 
Good points by 2&2 and HeavyPetter. Obviously at some point your children will be going out in public, so they have to learn how to behave and it would not be the best result if I never took my future kids anywhere (though I still believe a significant portion of behavior can be taught at home just as easily as in public). HP also discussed the point I was going to make re: you have the option of removing a child everywhere except an airplane so that should hopefully change some people's plans on whether they decide to have their children fly or not. I still don't really think anyone has given a solid reason why an infant would ever NEED to fly on an airplane (only thing I could think of would be a funeral), but its beside the point about teaching children how to behave.

Obviously my problem is with the people that have been discussed that don't seem to care about disciplining their children if they misbehave, and not most of those here who know what they are doing.

Ph - ouch on that comment from a few posts up. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to continue being awesome into your 30s.
 
Good points by 2&2 and HeavyPetter. Obviously at some point your children will be going out in public, so they have to learn how to behave and it would not be the best result if I never took my future kids anywhere (though I still believe a significant portion of behavior can be taught at home just as easily as in public). HP also discussed the point I was going to make re: you have the option of removing a child everywhere except an airplane so that should hopefully change some people's plans on whether they decide to have their children fly or not. I still don't really think anyone has given a solid reason why an infant would ever NEED to fly on an airplane (only thing I could think of would be a funeral), but its beside the point about teaching children how to behave.

Obviously my problem is with the people that have been discussed that don't seem to care about disciplining their children if they misbehave, and not most of those here who know what they are doing.

Ph - ouch on that comment from a few posts up. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to continue being awesome into your 30s.

Depends on from whose perspective you are viewing it. From the parents' perspective, would you rather be on a plane for 2 hours and roll the dice that the kid acts up, or be in a car with him/her for 15 hours (which turns into 20 hours) and know he/she is going to act up for a significant portion of it because they are locked in a carseat? At some point, I'm going to put everyone else's sanity at risk for the sake of my own.
 
Good points by 2&2 and HeavyPetter. Obviously at some point your children will be going out in public, so they have to learn how to behave and it would not be the best result if I never took my future kids anywhere (though I still believe a significant portion of behavior can be taught at home just as easily as in public). HP also discussed the point I was going to make re: you have the option of removing a child everywhere except an airplane so that should hopefully change some people's plans on whether they decide to have their children fly or not. I still don't really think anyone has given a solid reason why an infant would ever NEED to fly on an airplane (only thing I could think of would be a funeral), but its beside the point about teaching children how to behave.

Obviously my problem is with the people that have been discussed that don't seem to care about disciplining their children if they misbehave, and not most of those here who know what they are doing.

Ph - ouch on that comment from a few posts up. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to continue being awesome into your 30s.

We adopted our son from Russia when he was six months old. I wasn't taking a cruise ship home.
 
boom-headshot.jpg
 
Depends on from whose perspective you are viewing it. From the parents' perspective, would you rather be on a plane for 2 hours and roll the dice that the kid acts up, or be in a car with him/her for 15 hours (which turns into 20 hours) and know he/she is going to act up for a significant portion of it because they are locked in a carseat? At some point, I'm going to put everyone else's sanity at risk for the sake of my own.

As long as you can admit you are being selfish.
 
He's sparing the people eating at the restaurants he'd stop at along the way and the people in the hotel room next door since he'd have to break up a 15 hour drive.
 
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