Gardening Thread

Everyone I've talked to has advised against irrigation. They have basically said that it doesn't take much time and you need to be out tending to the garden anyway.

What kind of system are you going with?

Check out the agriculture album on my facebook page. We built a handful of raised beds, some out of landscape timbers (4'x8') and one with castlewall block.

If I had it to do all over again, the one thing I would change would be leaving out Black Kow. I added it on a recommendation, but ended up having bermuda grass seeds in it. I assumed the composting of the manure would have killed all the seed, but the beds I used Black Kow on all ended up with bermuda grass, and there is no other similar grass anywhere on my property.

I really like using vermiculite in the soil. It helps break up the soil and makes it much easier to work with over time.

I haven't decided, but I've been looking at basic drip irrigation set ups.

leftcoastdeac said:

I haven't decided, but I've been looking at basic drip irrigation set ups.

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Make sure you get a timer. I use a drip system with my grapevines and hops plants with a 1 gallon per hour emitter. Watering for one hour from 2am-3am daily is the optimum to prevent molds and disease.

Whether you build it yourself or use a kit, you're gonna spend about $150 or more unless you have this stuff lying around. Last year I took (3) 2" X 10" X 8' treated pieces of lumber cutting 1 in half for the sides and I added stainless brackets from Home Depot (not cheap but very sturdy and should last forever). The box took about an hour to put together. I used 8 large bags of Scotts moisture control soil, some fertilizer, and manure after I had tilled the ground. All I planted were (10) different tomato plants but it was a banner year. Use a soacker hose to water with as that is the ticket.

It sounds like a lot of work and expense but most of it are one time expenses. If you're gonna do tomatoes, don't skimp on the cages. Get the biggest ones you can find and push them as deep as you can.

Right now about the best thing you can do is get a soil sample and take it to a local agricultural extension office for an evaluation. You may need to add lime or other nutrients before you start in the spring.

Soil sample for a raised bed? I thought the point of raised beds was that existing soil wouldn't factor much into the deal.

As for costs, $150 seems way high...st least when comparing to what comes in a kit for that price. 6 2x6 for $30, a 4x4 for $5 and $20 for hardware seems like it would do it.

I did this last year but not raised, just outlined with some planks and some fresh soil. It was not nearly that expensive and worked fine. For irrigation, if you want to drip you don't have to go with the soaker hose. There are some plastic tubes/pieces you can join together in a variety of ways and make small slits in them and make a very cheap irrigation system. And I think that is way better in the hot summer than trying to water with a hose.

TSY, why did you compost the black kow? I just added it straight to the soil and had no problem. Composting will not kill the seeds which is why you don't want to put anything in there that has seeds because when you spread it out whatever is in there will be spread out with it. I think my first two big batches of compost are going to be ripe and ready for spring planting...can't wait

RacerDeac said:

Soil sample for a raised bed? I thought the point of raised beds was that existing soil wouldn't factor much into the deal.

As for costs, $150 seems way high...st least when comparing to what comes in a kit for that price. 6 2x6 for $30, a 4x4 for $5 and $20 for hardware seems like it would do it.

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My bad, I missed the raised part. Mine was outlined.

Are you gonna use seeds or bedded first up plants?

RacerDeac said:

Soil sample for a raised bed? I thought the point of raised beds was that existing soil wouldn't factor much into the deal.

As for costs, $150 seems way high...st least when comparing to what comes in a kit for that price. 6 2x6 for $30, a 4x4 for $5 and $20 for hardware seems like it would do it.

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As long as you arent using the existing soil, you shouldnt need to send in a sample. I assume you are going to bring in fill dirt or use potting soil for the bed, which should be balanced to begin with. One other suggestion, unless you plan on having deep rooting plants, throw down some nice weed paper. It'll help prevent grass and other weeds from coming up from the existing soil.

deac04 said:

TSY, why did you compost the black kow? I just added it straight to the soil and had no problem. Composting will not kill the seeds which is why you don't want to put anything in there that has seeds because when you spread it out whatever is in there will be spread out with it. I think my first two big batches of compost are going to be ripe and ready for spring planting...can't wait

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I didnt compost it, Black Kow is composted cow manure. I added it directly from the bag. Who knows, maybe I just got a hold of some that still had remnant seeds in it. :noidea:

i built a raised bed in the backyard. squirrels and racoons ate everything before it would get ripe. one time I pulled in the driveway and a squirrel on the tree beside my car looked directly at me with a big green tomato in his mouth. i yelled out "fuck you seizures!". now we plant flowers in it.

tsywake said:

As long as you arent using the existing soil, you shouldnt need to send in a sample. I assume you are going to bring in fill dirt or use potting soil for the bed, which should be balanced to begin with. One other suggestion, unless you plan on having deep rooting plants, throw down some nice weed paper. It'll help prevent grass and other weeds from coming up from the existing soil.



I didnt compost it, Black Kow is composted cow manure. I added it directly from the bag. Who knows, maybe I just got a hold of some that still had remnant seeds in it. :noidea:

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Ah gotcha, I need some of that, maybe it would actually make grass grow in my yard haha

Untreated lumber, screws, a pickup bed full of soil -- no way that's $150. Treated will last longer and I think the fear of seepage of the treatment into the soil is likely overblown, but my untreated boxes are 4+ years old and don't seem any worse for the wear. I just used some old decking screws I had lying around.

Trellis -- I have 4 or 5 that I built with electric conduit, elbows, rebar and trellis string. They look like this:


Conduit is cheap. The trellis string might be $10 a pack but you can get two 4x4 trellis's out of it. They last a long time -- multiple seasons. That is until your kids miss their goals and hit instead the trellis that sits next to it. Kids. What can you do?

I mean, three completed boxes, a trellis or two, the soil, some Black Kow (I've never had problems with it but what tsy dealt with must have sucked) . . . I guess you could approach the $100-150 mark total. Costs go up if you don't have access to a truck and need to have the topsoil delivered. Also, the pic in the box may be of 2x4s . . . that's not too deep but I guess it's deep enough. I have 2x8s, thus I needed more dirt. Still, a load of dirt is cheap if you can pick it up yourself (by the bag, not so much). If you can just take it from the ground and add some BK -- that'll save some coin.

Good luck!

RacerDeac said:

Soil sample for a raised bed? I thought the point of raised beds was that existing soil wouldn't factor much into the deal.

As for costs, $150 seems way high...st least when comparing to what comes in a kit for that price. 6 2x6 for $30, a 4x4 for $5 and $20 for hardware seems like it would do it.

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I suspect I'll spend most of my money on soil. Would like to be as weed free as possible.

Another option to "sterilize" your soil before planting. Take some of the clear plastic and cover the raised bed. Leave it on there for a couple weeks in March. The plastic will get the soil really hot and kill any weed bearing seeds. I've never done it, but one of the other forums I read when building my beds highly recommended it.

We have 3 raised beds. They are 4x8. Something is in them year-round. We currently have cold crops and herbs in them.

We mix the soil with black cow (1 to 1 ratio) but haven't had the issuse that TSY mentioned. We've been doing raised beds for nearly 15 years now. The ones at the house we previously lived at were 8x12 and built out of the trees that would fall down in our yard. Now we build them out of 2x6 wood (don't quote me on it). One of the best construction things we did was purchase joints from Parks Seed. If one of the sides splits, it makes repair easier. We actually built it up with 2 2x6's stack on top of each other. We'll plant our summer/spring crops in about April.

Depending on where you are in Charlotte, beware of RED CLAY. You really have to prepare the soil depending on how much red clay is in it.

There is no reason not to use existing soil for a raised bed. It is a cheap option. If you get it tested and then work it properly, you will have a great medium with which to grow on. Even if you do go ahead with purchased soil, in the years to come you should be should really watch what you are adding as fertilizer. You should get it (fertilizer) tested. NPK values of fertilizer can be highly variable (two samples from the same farm can be completely different). You should also test the NPK of your current soil because it will let you know what nutrients are truly needed. Blindly adding fertilizer as a practice in gardening is a very bad habit to have.

I agree with West End on the "overblown" concerns with treated wood. It does have trace arsenic but you'd literally have to ingest it. The same is true for rail-road ties. They are treated with creosote (traditional deterrent for boring insects-bees) and age very well. You can easily cut them using a chain-saw (even an electric chain saw can make straight cuts or 45's with ease). Use a piece of chalk and a framing square to make angled ends if you want (looks better IMO) and you nail (4) 20 penny nails into each corner of the box when you get your ends lined up.Then you drill 2 holes through the top of each side and put in 2 foot pieces of ribar into each hole - driving them with a 5 pound sledge.

The ties just give you a real sturdy and aesthetically appealing look and you don't have to worry about them curling and twisting in the hot sun like a typical 4x4 does after 2 years. Also, if you stack 2x6's for your frame you will end up having them separate from one another
and it's the same effect as leaving a laminate out in the rain.They peel away from one another as the nails-screws back out in the weather.

I have had great luck with these at my Mom's properties in Oriental and again,
the concern with creosote might be valid if you are growing garden veggies...but burm and box plants like hastas, lariape, myrtles, etc., don't skip a beat. As for your base you can lay down black plastic or one of the numerous landscape screens before filling with some regular Home Depot top soil.

Our favorite things to grow have been:

Cool Season
Broccoli
Cabbage
Spinach
Lettuces
Kale
Swiss Chard
Onions
Turnips
Radishes

Warm Season
Green Peppers
Jalapenos
Chinese Egg Plant
Tomatoes
Cucumbers
Okra

This year I want to do melons.

Good luck with it. The rewards are great.

Treated wood is not a concern to me. Arsenic was removed from treated wood in 2003 and the leaching of chemicals only goes about 6 inches into the soil based on studies I've read. Even then, in amounts that aren't harmful, and none are known carcinogens. May use untreated anyway, as this lot could sell anytime...no need to invest too much money in the name of longevity.

I'll come up with something sturdy without spending too much. I always overengineer. Generations of construction company owners and years spent hammering nails and building race cars doomed me when it comes to that.

As for soil, this is an urban neighborhood and a lot where a house was knocked down. All sorts if construction waste, glass, and clay to contend with. The soil is crap and would be full of weeds. Planning to grow organic, so having a good starting point is going to be key.

RacerDeac said:

Treated wood is not a concern to me. Arsenic was removed from treated wood in 2003 and the leaching of chemicals only goes about 6 inches into the soil based on studies I've read. Even then, in amounts that aren't harmful, and none are known carcinogens. May use untreated anyway, as this lot could sell anytime...no need to invest too much money in the name of longevity.

As for soil, this is an urban neighborhood and a lot where a house was knocked down. All sorts if construction waste, glass, and clay to contend with. The soil is crap and would be full of weeds. Planning to grow organic, so having a good starting point is going to be key.

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We grow organic. No chemicals, etc. It is not hard to do, you just need to really work the soil.

You mentioned irrigation. Ours is out of the range of our sprinkler system. We go up their and water by hand each day.

Another word of advice - plant in phases. For instance, plant one row of zucchini during week 1. Then a second row during week 3. Then a third row during week 5. This spreads out the points that each row gets ripe and means you have the crop longer. For zucchini, squash, and cucumbers you can normally plant at least 2 crops during the summer. One in late spring and then another in July.

deaconbones said:

Our favorite things to grow have been:

Cool Season
Broccoli
Cabbage
Spinach
Lettuces
Kale
Swiss Chard
Onions
Turnips
Radishes

Warm Season
Green Peppers
Jalapenos
Chinese Egg Plant
Tomatoes
Cucumbers
Okra

This year I want to do melons.

Good luck with it. The rewards are great.

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Good luck with the melons. That is the one crop we have never seemed to get to grow well.