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VOTE AGAINST

Using incest is nonsensical and a non-starter. Incest is illegal because it is about power, domoination and harming people. There's no way to logically separate parts of incest.

RChildress and Diggler aren't as clever as they think they are. They think they could say,"See you draw the line at incest. We draw the line at gy marriage. Thus we are equal."

Eliminating incet laws will harm many people. Being gay doesn't harm people.
 
In New Jersey incest between adults is completely legal. I presume from your statements above that you believe that this state of affairs is immoral and should be changed. Do you agree that this is because you have a sense of morality that you feel should be expected of everyone?

If you don't believe that this law should be changed, then you're okay with "power, domination, and harming people."

I'm not trying to be clever. I'm simply illustrating that we all have places where we draw the line - I don't see anything clever about that. If you could agree that we all have a place where we draw the line, then we could agree that your sense of morality and mine are simply different and we won't ever reconcile them, and that's okay.
 
I don't believe anyone's religion should impose their morals on the public. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's.

Denying gays right to marry is absolutely no different than enying interfaith or interracial couple the right to marry.
 
RJKarl said:
I don't believe anyone's religion should impose their morals on the public. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's.

Denying gays right to marry is absolutely no different than enying interfaith or interracial couple the right to marry.
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People's choice. That is why there will be a vote.
 
If sex and reproduction are central to reproduction than those men and women who can't have children medically or due to age shouldn't be allowed to marry.

allowing gays to marry does not make any house of faith conduct those ceremonies as they aren't forced to perform interfaith weddings today. this is another point that you lose.

By the way thousands upon thousands of gay couples have children in the same way millions of straight couples have -through surrogates and invitrofertilization.
 
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To take the heat off gay marriage and bring things back to what this amendment will do... I am re-posting the original content of teh first post:

In addition to prohibiting same-sex marriage, as state law already does, the Amendment would:
-prohibit North Carolina from ever passing legislation that would grant civil unions;
-bar the state from instituting domestic partnership rights;
-strip the domestic partner insurance benefits currently offered to employees by a number of local governments, including Chapel Hill, Durham, Greensboro, and Mecklenburg and Orange Counties.

In addition, courts could interpret the language of the Amendment to ban any rights to state’s hundreds of thousands of unmarried couples—both same and opposite-gender. This would:
-invalidate domestic violence protections for all unmarried partners;
-undercut existing child custody and visitation rights that are designed to protect the best interests of children;
-prevent the state from giving committed couples rights to allow them to order their relationships, including threatening their ability to determine the disposition of their deceased partner’s remains; to make medical decisions if their partner is incapacitated; and to allow second-parent adoptions in order to ensure that both partners have a legal tie to, and financial responsibilities for, the children they are raising.
-invalidate trusts, wills, and end-of-life directives by one partner in favor of the other.

RChildress, I have bolded the items I that should give you reason (hopefully) to vote AGAINST this amendment. Gay marriage aside, there are other effects of this legislation that are detrimental to many couples that already exist -legally- in NC. Taking the insurance benefits that are currently granted in some counties is undeniably shitty.

edit to add: yes, these are benefits currently granted to married couples and I know you are against them and willing to give them up yourself; however, they are still very much in place and it is highly unlikely the system will ever lose them.
 
Things like this "strip the domestic partner insurance benefits currently offered to employees by a number of local governments, including Chapel Hill, Durham, Greensboro, and Mecklenburg and Orange Counties." pretty much guarantee that after the dumbasses in North Carolina vote to pass this it will be immediately challenged in court, money will go to defending it, it will get repealed and nothing changes except some lawyers make money and the state loses money.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
Things like this "strip the domestic partner insurance benefits currently offered to employees by a number of local governments, including Chapel Hill, Durham, Greensboro, and Mecklenburg and Orange Counties." pretty much guarantee that after the dumbasses in North Carolina vote to pass this it will be immediately challenged in court, money will go to defending it, it will get repealed and nothing changes except some lawyers make money and the state loses money.
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Insurance companies can offer any plan they want. They can cover your next door neighbor if they wanted to.
 
RChildress107 said:
I think this illustrates pretty clearly for me why benefits tied to marriage should cease. It seems like a lot of these rights should be granted to everyone, single or in a relationship, gay or straight, married or unmarried.
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But that's not up for a vote on May 8th. Have we convinced you to vote against this amendment now?
 
Ok...how about someone who plans to vote FOR this explain why this is something we need passed. How does this help us?
 
lbE08 said:
To take the heat off gay marriage and bring things back to what this amendment will do... I am re-posting the original content of teh first post:

In addition to prohibiting same-sex marriage, as state law already does, the Amendment would:
-prohibit North Carolina from ever passing legislation that would grant civil unions;
-bar the state from instituting domestic partnership rights;
-strip the domestic partner insurance benefits currently offered to employees by a number of local governments, including Chapel Hill, Durham, Greensboro, and Mecklenburg and Orange Counties.

In addition, courts could interpret the language of the Amendment to ban any rights to state’s hundreds of thousands of unmarried couples—both same and opposite-gender. This would:
-invalidate domestic violence protections for all unmarried partners;
-undercut existing child custody and visitation rights that are designed to protect the best interests of children;
-prevent the state from giving committed couples rights to allow them to order their relationships, including threatening their ability to determine the disposition of their deceased partner’s remains; to make medical decisions if their partner is incapacitated; and to allow second-parent adoptions in order to ensure that both partners have a legal tie to, and financial responsibilities for, the children they are raising.
-invalidate trusts, wills, and end-of-life directives by one partner in favor of the other.

RChildress, I have bolded the items I that should give you reason (hopefully) to vote AGAINST this amendment. Gay marriage aside, there are other effects of this legislation that are detrimental to many couples that already exist -legally- in NC. Taking the insurance benefits that are currently granted in some counties is undeniably shitty.

edit to add: yes, these are benefits currently granted to married couples and I know you are against them and willing to give them up yourself; however, they are still very much in place and it is highly unlikely the system will ever lose them.
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I am 100% against Amendment 1 and even have a yard sign up here in Chapel Hill. I have yet to hear any rational argument for it. It blows me away that 54% of likely voters will support this. That being said, I don't think this has any impact on insurance. If an employers, public or private, wants to offer domestic partner coverage (same sex or not), I don't see anything in this amendment that changes that.
 
WFFaithful said:
the insurance thing has to do with municipalities that were providing insurance
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Municipalities can shop for insurance with the municipalities writing the specs. The marketplace would take care of it. It always has.
 
Deadbolt said:
Ok...how about someone who plans to vote FOR this explain why this is something we need passed. How does this help us?
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Most people who vote yes will do so for religious reasons.
 
Deadbolt said:
Not what I asked. What is the benefit for the people of NC? Make a legitimate argument for this amendment.
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Maintaining traditional values...most voters want that. Ward and June Cleaver, etc.
 
Deadbolt said:
That's not the government's responsibility. Communities, churches...not the government.
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We as a society decide what is decent. That is where voting comes in. What if people wanted to run around downtown naked? Where are their civil rights? This May will be an interesting vote.
 
I think 2 people who love each other and want it to be recognized & possibly raise a family is "decent". There's no defense for this. None.
 
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