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Are $250k Earners Middle Class?

Is $250k a year middle class?

  • Total voters
    91
  • Poll closed .
TuffaloDeac10

TuffaloDeac10

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The 2011 US income distribution, adjusted for family size:

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As we can see, $250k is firmly in the right tail of the distribution.
 
Making $250k in Winston-Salem doesn't equal making $250k in NYC. A family in NYC making $250k is going to struggle to pay for college and save for retirement.
 
Caturday said:
Making $250k in Winston-Salem doesn't equal making $250k in NYC. A family in NYC making $250k is going to struggle to pay for college and save for retirement.
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Interesting yardstick. The old "they don't have enough for Fordham AND a retirement beach house."
 
Caturday said:
Making $250k in Winston-Salem doesn't equal making $250k in NYC. A family in NYC making $250k is going to struggle to pay for college and save for retirement.
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Sure, but what's your point? There isn't a collection of regional 1%s and 99%s, there are national 1%ers and 99%ers. It's the national 1% that has made out with all the wage gains in the last ~40 years, not 1%s in each and every county in the nation.

While the ACS top income bracket is just $200k+, 23% of families in Manhattan are in that bracket but one could easily slum it in Brooklyn or Queens, where less than 5% of families clear that bar (%s are families in group/families, not families/households). There's only one intellectually thorough way to paint $250k earners in Manhattan as the grimy face of the proletariat's struggle, and that's OWS' and my way.
 
bobknightfan said:
Maybe they should consider moving....or at least stop whining about the cost of living if they choose to stay there. The last time I was in New York City, there were open roads leading out of the city in all directions.

Why should people living in other places have to pay for your higher cost of living if you live in NYC? I thought you were against taking money from people to pay for other people's expenses? So why should the same job in one city be paid more in another city...just because that other city has a higher cost of living?
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No it's because of local labor markets and agglomeration economics.
 
Caturday said:
Making $250k in Winston-Salem doesn't equal making $250k in NYC. A family in NYC making $250k is going to struggle to pay for college and save for retirement.
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I know there are shadow taxes implied by NYC's zoning code and historical preservation, but why shouldn't we consider the choice to live in a higher cost-of-living area in NY to be a consumption expense and not forced crowding out of college tuition and retirement? These earners could flee to lower cost suburbs and still make it to work in Manhattan.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
I know there are shadow taxes implied by NYC's zoning code and historical preservation, but why shouldn't we consider the choice to live in a higher cost-of-living area in NY to be a consumption expense and not forced crowding out of college tuition and retirement? These earners could flee to lower cost suburbs and still make it to work in Manhattan.
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They could live lots of places and live very well on $250K.
 
bobknightfan said:
It's a "chicken & egg" thing....which is pure bullshit. "You have to pay more because the cost of living is higher." "Why is the cost of living higher?" "Because people get paid more there & can afford it." "Well, why are people paid more there?" "Because the cost of living is higher, stupid."
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That's still not correct. They're being paid higher wages because workers in the high cost areas (NY, Silicon Valley) are more productive than they would be in other areas because there are real benefits to locating near firms in certain industries. Costs are high because minimum lot sizes or rules on new construction prevent the building of more units. Chicago has big businesses and productive workers but permits a lot of construction, which keeps costs down.

If you asked why DC is expensive, you wouldn't give your answer. You'd say it's expensive because Congress stupidly limits building heights to a maximum of 160 feet near K St, and lower than that elsewhere. This creates a shortage of housing and office space, driving up other costs. The real question is why you'd do business there, and the answer to that is that firms (lobbies in DC's case, financial services in NY's, and tech in Silicon Valley's) will pay that premium to be in a high-cost area because either that's where either the Congressmen or the skilled workers are.
 
bobknightfan said:
Maybe they should consider moving....or at least stop whining about the cost of living if they choose to stay there. The last time I was in New York City, there were open roads leading out of the city in all directions.

Why should people living in other places have to pay for your higher cost of living if you live in NYC? I thought you were against taking money from people to pay for other people's expenses? So why should the same job in one city be paid more in another city...just because that other city has a higher cost of living?
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You do know that companies have been taking that into consideration for decades, right? Any company with locations across the country has A, B, and C salary grades based upon cost of living. There is no way they could get employees to accept transfers to certain cities otherwise.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
Sure, but what's your point? There isn't a collection of regional 1%s and 99%s, there are national 1%ers and 99%ers. It's the national 1% that has made out with all the wage gains in the last ~40 years, not 1%s in each and every county in the nation.

While the ACS top income bracket is just $200k+, 23% of families in Manhattan are in that bracket but one could easily slum it in Brooklyn or Queens, where less than 5% of families clear that bar (%s are families in group/families, not families/households). There's only one intellectually thorough way to paint $250k earners in Manhattan as the grimy face of the proletariat's struggle, and that's OWS' and my way.
Click to expand...

So someone working Manhattan hours has to slum it because they're considered rich? To have a $250K+ job in Manhattan, you're likely either a lawyer or in finance. You likely have significant debt from school. You've also been identified as talented and work 60+ hours/week. Commuting from Queens or Brooklyn isn't that easy. The cost of living in Queens or Brooklyn depends where you live in those boroughs. If you live on the East River, you aren't going to see a significant drop in prices so you'd have to move further from the city and deal with a shitty commute. Please tell an IB associates to add two hours/day onto his schedule and see what happens to the finance industry. It's really nice to tell people to make sacrifices when it's not your time or money.
 
Yeah, the two options are living in Manhattan and working remotely a thousand miles away. God knows you can't commute from less expensive boroughs.
 
Shorty said:
Sure. Any Manhattan-based employee could walk into the boss' office tomorrow morning and tell the boss that they are moving and will be working remotely from Evansville, IN.
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Hey Boss,

I want to keep my salary but I'll be telecommuting from Bermuda.

K thanks.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
Yeah, the two options are living in Manhattan and working remotely a thousand miles away. God knows you can't commute from less expensive boroughs.
Click to expand...

Tell me where someone working 100 hours/week is finding 2 hours/day to commute.
 
Caturday said:
So someone working Manhattan hours has to slum it because they're considered rich? To have a $250K+ job in Manhattan, you're likely either a lawyer or in finance. You likely have significant debt from school. You've also been identified as talented and work 60+ hours/week. Commuting from Queens or Brooklyn isn't that easy. The cost of living in Queens or Brooklyn depends where you live in those boroughs. If you live on the East River, you aren't going to see a significant drop in prices so you'd have to move further from the city and deal with a shitty commute. Please tell an IB associates to add two hours/day onto his schedule and see what happens to the finance industry. It's really nice to tell people to make sacrifices when it's not your time or money.
Click to expand...

FIL manages to commute for fancy lawyer job from Nassau. It's far from impossible (though maybe not for a first-year associate, but the people I know who did that didn't make $250k anyways).
 
What's a FIL? Sure, tax these guys more. The whole city doesn't depend on their bonuses or anything.
 
a lot of people that make $250k+ in manhattan work 12-15 hours a day. spending another 1-2 hours a day commuting would suck.
 
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