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Clemson Post Game Thoughts

liveanddiedeac said:
We played good defensive 1st halves against Xavier and Clemson and in both games at halftime on this board I predicted we'd give up 50+ in the 2nd half and both times I was unfortunately correct.
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We aren't playing good defense in 1st halves. Our opponents are just playing like poo and just getting warmed up.
 
Pilchard said:
3. We are going to miss Devin, but I think we miss his defense way more than his offense. Moore is going to play a lot more next year, simply because he can defend in the halfcourt set.

Don't you mean that we are going to miss Devin's offense more than his defense?

I like Devin, and feel that has been dealt a bad hand with Bz and a weak supporting cast, but his man repeatedly scored on him in the paint, he can't defend the rim when guards go the basket, and he got beat on the defensive glass a lot. Feel like the tone for the second half was set with Clemson's very first 2nd half possession: WF was up 8; Clemson missed their first shot the rebound caromed right to Devin; he was slow to react didn't get off the floor; still got a hand on it, but didn't attack the ball; Blossomgame came from behind Devin, snatched the ball away from him, and layed it in. Clemson was on a roll from there.

One word to defend Devin: it appeared he hurt his ankle against ND, and he was not moving well last night; then again, that's something that the coaches need to see and recognize. Agree that Moore is the only player on the roster that can defend the rim. I would tell him to stay ultra aggressive; no lay-ups for the opponent, and if Moore fouls out, so be it, but he needs to play more; we give way too many points within 2 feet of the basket.
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I'm not necessarily going to defend Devin's defense, but a lot of his defense looking bad inside is because none of guards can stay in front of their man consistently. That puts tremendous pressure on the guys inside.

I think the first foul call 20 seconds into the game against him hurt his aggressiveness the rest of the game. I agree with your take on the ankle injury as well.
 
Wake played pretty solid defense for the bulk of the first half in both those games. The defensive intensity over the last 8 minutes of the first half last night was probably some of the best defense we've played all year.
 
Ayo said:
We aren't playing good defense in 1st halves. Our opponents are just playing like poo and just getting warmed up.
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More so last night than against X. We played a very good half on both ends against X and it seems since the 2nd half of that game it's all been downhill, except for the road win at LSU.
 
Wrangor said:
I didn't see the whole game last night, but caught most of the second half and some of the first half. I am sure I missed out out on some analysis so interested to hear other thoughts.

1. Doral Moore and Collins are going to be very good players for us. They compliment each other well, and I would like to see them play together a little bit this year. They both make a lot of mental errors, but the talent is there.

2. Rotations, rotations, rotations. Still not sure what Manning is doing, and am not sure he has a true idea of his philosophy. He seems to be stubbornly rigid at times, and then in the next moment he plays a lineup that makes zero sense. This is a huge area of improvement for him in the future. I would like to see him narrow the lineup to 7-8 guys and roll with it. See if we could develop some consistency.

3. We are going to miss Devin, but I think we miss his defense way more than his offense. Moore is going to play a lot more next year, simply because he can defend in the halfcourt set.

4. At the risk of sounding like wfu22fan....I think we are a better team with CMM on the bench. Manning runs a continuous offense, and whenever he gets the ball the continuity stops because the defense is allowed to reset by sagging off and getting back into position. I know his stats were decent last night, and he has had some big games, but it may be time to get a look at him coming off the bench.

5. Wilbekin is a real liability on defense, and his lack of mobility makes him very limited on offense. We need him to move to the bench as well.

6. We need complete players, and we really have 1 (Bryant Crawford). Moore and Collins should develop into 2 way players. I think Richard Washington in next year's class will be a great 2 way player. The difference in the teams we play and us is that their players (and especially their guards) can defend and score. We have to choose. This makes it very difficult for Manning, and probably has a lot to do with his lineup inconsistencies.

7. If Brandon can handle it and shoot it, I think we see a lot of him at PG and Crawford at SG next year. Manning has to be tired of an inefficient offense because we have no one who can stretch the floor.

8. Free throws matter. Clemson was 21-23 in the second half. It is not a coincidence they won. Next year our only free throw anchor looks to be Moore (don't know about SJM). That will help in close basketball games.

9. The ACC is really tough, and losing breeds losing. It is very difficult to break out of a funk with an ACC as difficult as it is this year. We simply have to get better, and that will be more and more difficult as the season progresses and DT and CMM realize they aren't going to play in the post season. But the ACC is really difficult. Duke is a good team, and they are losing games pretty much at the same clip we are. There are no easy games, outside of BC and Wake Forest.

10. We are Jekyl and Hyde on defense. I watched the last 5 minutes of the first half, and our rotations were spot on, we were hustling back to prevent fast break and getting defensive rebounds. We gave up 20 points. Fast forward to the second half and we give up 57. We were late on rotations and gave up several run out layups/dunks. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not sure what to say about that other than Manning hasn't instilled the consistency that we need to compete for the upper half of the ACC.
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People need to actually watch Thomas play on both ends of the court and realize he does not play any defense at all. If you listen to the games on the radio and watch the game at the same time you will hear Dinger say over and over and over that there is never any helpside defense. Nobody ever turns around in the lane to see what is going on. His own man blows by him time and time again like he is standing still and he gives no help to his teammates. Sure he gets some easy rebounds but he does not block out and he can score only with his left hand. Thomas has never ever learned in his four years here to shoot the ball with his right hand. That is basketball 101 when going to your right to learn the footwork and use the right hand. Thomas is just very deficient in so many ways and looks like he has never worked on free throws nor wants to play defense. He is just weak as a senior leader. And do not get me started on what Cody does not bring to the team. He has just been nonexistent since coming back.
 
Bones McKinney said:
People need to actually watch Thomas play on both ends of the court and realize he does not play any defense at all. If you listen to the games on the radio and watch the game at the same time you will hear Dinger say over and over and over that there is never any helpside defense. Nobody ever turns around in the lane to see what is going on. His own man blows by him time and time again like he is standing still and he gives no help to his teammates. Sure he gets some easy rebounds but he does not block out and he can score only with his left hand. Thomas has never ever learned in his four years here to shoot the ball with his right hand. That is basketball 101 when going to your right to learn the footwork and use the right hand. Thomas is just very deficient in so many ways and looks like he has never worked on free throws nor wants to play defense. He is just weak as a senior leader. And do not get me started on what Cody does not bring to the team. He has just been nonexistent since coming back.
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This is just wrong. Devin has developed a great right hand. Regarding weak side help defense, this is more of an issue with constant blowbys past our perimeter defenders.
 
DeaconSig said:
I feel bad for Brandon Childress. People have overhyped him so much that he is going to get eaten alive when he is not ready to play next year (and he won't be).
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The over-hype followed by the under the bus is really our specialty.
 
Crab had a 'WTF we might actually have a good player on our team' 4 minute stretch in the 2nd half, that was fun.
 
Bones McKinney said:
People need to actually watch Thomas play on both ends of the court and realize he does not play any defense at all. If you listen to the games on the radio and watch the game at the same time you will hear Dinger say over and over and over that there is never any helpside defense. Nobody ever turns around in the lane to see what is going on. His own man blows by him time and time again like he is standing still and he gives no help to his teammates. Sure he gets some easy rebounds but he does not block out and he can score only with his left hand. Thomas has never ever learned in his four years here to shoot the ball with his right hand. That is basketball 101 when going to your right to learn the footwork and use the right hand. Thomas is just very deficient in so many ways and looks like he has never worked on free throws nor wants to play defense. He is just weak as a senior leader. And do not get me started on what Cody does not bring to the team. He has just been nonexistent since coming back.
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Sorry. I disagree. Thomas is by far our best interior defender. He is a half step slower right now with the injury, but he gets to his spots well before any of the other bigs. Moore knows what to do but just can't do it yet. Collins is like a lost puppy sometimes, and Dinos doesn't really have it in his arsenal to be a good help side defender. I would love to see this team play defense more like Wisconsin and less like Duke. When we get extended on the perimeter we lose contain on dribble penetration and backdoor cuts. There is always a time for extending the defense, but our base defense should look a lot more like Dino Gaudio's scheme IMO. Tight on the perimeter, front the post for early help, and make them beat you from the outside. Instead we allow deep dribble penetration which causes us to rotate multiple times leaving WIDE open outside shots and layups.
 
Also Cremins' obsession with Moore was funny. Then he comes in, Cremins goes crazy, and boom 3pt play due to Moore goaltending.
 
How can anyone bash Thomas? Outside of his immature behavior on foul calls he's the only reliable guy we have.
 
freakadeac said:
Crab had a 'WTF we might actually have a good player on our team' 4 minute stretch in the 2nd half, that was fun.
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He needs to realize that he is athletic enough to be a more aggressive player. He is shooting 47% from inside the 3 pt line versus 23% outside it. His pull up jumper at ND had been referenced & when he displays that tool it usually is successful. Although he still is a bit hesitant to take some contact at the basket, last night he had that moment of adrenaline & hoping he realizes he can live at the FT line if he is willing to take those bumps & bruises.
 
We've lost 7 of the past 8 to Clemson...

in basketball...
 
My thought was "how in the hell did we beat Indiana, UCLA, Arkansas, LSU? Or UNC-G and Coastal Carolina for that matter." It doesn't even seem like the same team.
 
What bothers me most right now is year #2 at Vtech is going a helleva lot better than year #2 at Wake. Buzz Williams has maybe 3-4 decent guys to work with BUT he has them hustling and busting their butts for 40 minutes every game. They went up to the Dome last night and took Cuse to OT before losing. Killer loss ? Nope. Will they sag next time ? Nope. Williams DEMANDS maximum effort and a NO QUIT attitude. They are a team nobody wants to play. They aren't going anywhere post-season but they are giving their fans and students a collective moneys worth and concrete evidence that under Williams, Vtech is definitely headed for winning ways - quickly.

Two points -

The incoming recruit class is NOT above average. All eggs went into the Giles bucket and it failed. This class had to be eye-catching ( beyond Giles ) and it isn't.

Danny Manning's in-game persona is what it is. Contemplative, reserved, laid-back, quiet....call it whatever but, in light of this tailspin, I'd like to see/hear some fire, some obvious passion, heck throw the sport coat, kick a chair, get tossed from a game....do something out of character to try and stop this horrific slide....before it results in one of the most cataclysmic disasters in ACC history.

END OF RANT
 
MichDeac25 said:
This is just wrong. Devin has developed a great right hand. Regarding weak side help defense, this is more of an issue with constant blowbys past our perimeter defenders.
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DT has developed a right hand. Great? No. But some semblance of one which he didn't have his first two years.
 
For me, Dinos is the good offense, no defense culprit along with some of the others. He comes in and does something great offensively (put back, 3 ball) and then gets abused on the other end. Seems to happen more often than not
 
Wrangor said:
8. Free throws matter. Clemson was 21-23 in the second half. It is not a coincidence they won. Next year our only free throw anchor looks to be Moore (don't know about SJM). That will help in close basketball games..
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Moore is shooting 73% from the line this year, which is better than Crawford, Hudson, Watson, McClinton, Thomas, and CMM.
 
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