Clemson Post Game Thoughts

[Wrangor]

I didn't see the whole game last night, but caught most of the second half and some of the first half. I am sure I missed out out on some analysis so interested to hear other thoughts.

1. Doral Moore and Collins are going to be very good players for us. They compliment each other well, and I would like to see them play together a little bit this year. They both make a lot of mental errors, but the talent is there.

2. Rotations, rotations, rotations. Still not sure what Manning is doing, and am not sure he has a true idea of his philosophy. He seems to be stubbornly rigid at times, and then in the next moment he plays a lineup that makes zero sense. This is a huge area of improvement for him in the future. I would like to see him narrow the lineup to 7-8 guys and roll with it. See if we could develop some consistency.

3. We are going to miss Devin, but I think we miss his defense way more than his offense. Moore is going to play a lot more next year, simply because he can defend in the halfcourt set.

4. At the risk of sounding like wfu22fan....I think we are a better team with CMM on the bench. Manning runs a continuous offense, and whenever he gets the ball the continuity stops because the defense is allowed to reset by sagging off and getting back into position. I know his stats were decent last night, and he has had some big games, but it may be time to get a look at him coming off the bench.

5. Wilbekin is a real liability on defense, and his lack of mobility makes him very limited on offense. We need him to move to the bench as well.

6. We need complete players, and we really have 1 (Bryant Crawford). Moore and Collins should develop into 2 way players. I think Richard Washington in next year's class will be a great 2 way player. The difference in the teams we play and us is that their players (and especially their guards) can defend and score. We have to choose. This makes it very difficult for Manning, and probably has a lot to do with his lineup inconsistencies.

7. If Brandon can handle it and shoot it, I think we see a lot of him at PG and Crawford at SG next year. Manning has to be tired of an inefficient offense because we have no one who can stretch the floor.

8. Free throws matter. Clemson was 21-23 in the second half. It is not a coincidence they won. Next year our only free throw anchor looks to be Moore (don't know about SJM). That will help in close basketball games.

9. The ACC is really tough, and losing breeds losing. It is very difficult to break out of a funk with an ACC as difficult as it is this year. We simply have to get better, and that will be more and more difficult as the season progresses and DT and CMM realize they aren't going to play in the post season. But the ACC is really difficult. Duke is a good team, and they are losing games pretty much at the same clip we are. There are no easy games, outside of BC and Wake Forest.

10. We are Jekyl and Hyde on defense. I watched the last 5 minutes of the first half, and our rotations were spot on, we were hustling back to prevent fast break and getting defensive rebounds. We gave up 20 points. Fast forward to the second half and we give up 57. We were late on rotations and gave up several run out layups/dunks. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not sure what to say about that other than Manning hasn't instilled the consistency that we need to compete for the upper half of the ACC.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

I didn't see the whole game last night, but caught most of the second half and some of the first half. I am sure I missed out out on some analysis so interested to hear other thoughts.

1. Doral Moore and Collins are going to be very good players for us. They compliment each other well, and I would like to see them play together a little bit this year. They both make a lot of mental errors, but the talent is there.

2. Rotations, rotations, rotations. Still not sure what Manning is doing, and am not sure he has a true idea of his philosophy. He seems to be stubbornly rigid at times, and then in the next moment he plays a lineup that makes zero sense. This is a huge area of improvement for him in the future. I would like to see him narrow the lineup to 7-8 guys and roll with it. See if we could develop some consistency.

3. We are going to miss Devin, but I think we miss his defense way more than his offense. Moore is going to play a lot more next year, simply because he can defend in the halfcourt set.

4. At the risk of sounding like wfu22fan....I think we are a better team with CMM on the bench. Manning runs a continuous offense, and whenever he gets the ball the continuity stops because the defense is allowed to reset by sagging off and getting back into position. I know his stats were decent last night, and he has had some big games, but it may be time to get a look at him coming off the bench.

5. Wilbekin is a real liability on defense, and his lack of mobility makes him very limited on offense. We need him to move to the bench as well.

6. We need complete players, and we really have 1 (Bryant Crawford). Moore and Collins should develop into 2 way players. I think Richard Washington in next year's class will be a great 2 way player. The difference in the teams we play and us is that their players (and especially their guards) can defend and score. We have to choose. This makes it very difficult for Manning, and probably has a lot to do with his lineup inconsistencies.

7. If Brandon can handle it and shoot it, I think we see a lot of him at PG and Crawford at SG next year. Manning has to be tired of an inefficient offense because we have no one who can stretch the floor.

8. Free throws matter. Clemson was 21-23 in the second half. It is not a coincidence they won. Next year our only free throw anchor looks to be Moore (don't know about SJM). That will help in close basketball games.

9. The ACC is really tough, and losing breeds losing. It is very difficult to break out of a funk with an ACC as difficult as it is this year. We simply have to get better, and that will be more and more difficult as the season progresses and DT and CMM realize they aren't going to play in the post season. But the ACC is really difficult. Duke is a good team, and they are losing games pretty much at the same clip we are. There are no easy games, outside of BC and Wake Forest.

10. We are Jekyl and Hyde on defense. I watched the last 5 minutes of the first half, and our rotations were spot on, we were hustling back to prevent fast break and getting defensive rebounds. We gave up 20 points. Fast forward to the second half and we give up 57. We were late on rotations and gave up several run out layups/dunks. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not sure what to say about that other than Manning hasn't instilled the consistency that we need to compete for the upper half of the ACC.

We played good defensive 1st halves against Xavier and Clemson and in both games at halftime on this board I predicted we'd give up 50+ in the 2nd half and both times I was unfortunately correct.

 

[Buttermaker]

Dinger said on radio he thought we were fortunate to give up only 20 points in the first half. He felt the guards were missing open, good looks. Obviously that changed in the second half.

 

[daaberry]

#7 : My hopes are that Crawford continues to man the point & Woods at the 2 ends up being capable of handling the ball as he has already shown the ability to shoot it. My fear is that neither Woods, Washington, or Chill can beat out Wilbekin showing how ugly the future actually is. I think we are a better team w/ the ball in Crawford's hands. Although at this point better may just mean an 11-12th place finish versus a 14-15th.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Dinger said on radio he thought we were fortunate to give up only 20 points in the first half. He felt the guards were missing open, good looks. Obviously that changed in the second half.

Yeah, that's true, Clemson shot poorly in the first half. Still, for us we played well defensively in the first half and then a total meltdown in the 2nd. It was predictable though.

 

[Bourrc9]

I think I'd like our starting 5 to be Crawford, Watson, Hudson, Dinos, and Thomas. At least on paper, that lineup has potential to be pretty good defensively and has 4 guys who can stretch the floor. Or replace Dinos with one of the freshman bigs if you want to sacrifice floor spacing for defense. If there's one positive takeaway from last night, it's gotta be the play from Hudson. He was aggressive on offense, drew a few fouls, made a layup, and then even hit a three. Amazing how that works. Hopefully he can build off of last night.

 

[Bubble Boy]

I thought one bright spot last night was that Hudson had a 3-4 minute spurt where he actually did more than just stand around the perimeter and launch the occasional bricked three attempt. It was nice to see him attack the rim and get to the FT line some again. It also seemed like he had nice energy and hit the glass hard. It sure would be nice to get that type of performance from him for 20 plus minutes a game, so we could get rid of the small 3 guard line-up and go with one that has more size and athleticism.

 

[Buttermaker]

^ agree but the problem I have with Hudson is he wants to shoot or attack the rim every time he touches the ball. He needs to learn shot selection and situational play.

 

[DeacsATS]

I keep expecting to open one of these Wrangor post-game threads to find he's lost the will to continue writing detailed basketball analysis in favor of delusional ramblings or a more Shining-esque slip into insanity.

"All work and no play makes Wrangor a dull boy."

 

[Stan Gable]

We've lost 7 of 8 to CLEMSON. Our program is dogshit.

 

[Wrangor]

I keep expecting to open one of these Wrangor post-game threads to find he's lost the will to continue writing detailed basketball analysis in favor of delusional ramblings or a more Shining-esque slip into insanity.

"All work and no play makes Wrangor a dull boy."

Haha....watching this team makes me feel like I am going insane sometimes. We are very bi-polar.

 

[MichDeac25]

I didn't see the whole game last night, but caught most of the second half and some of the first half. I am sure I missed out out on some analysis so interested to hear other thoughts.

4. At the risk of sounding like wfu22fan....I think we are a better team with CMM on the bench. Manning runs a continuous offense, and whenever he gets the ball the continuity stops because the defense is allowed to reset by sagging off and getting back into position. I know his stats were decent last night, and he has had some big games, but it may be time to get a look at him coming off the bench.

5. Wilbekin is a real liability on defense, and his lack of mobility makes him very limited on offense. We need him to move to the bench as well.

This is what I'd really like to see. CMM and Wilbekin have to go to the bench. Wilbekin is simply awful defensively. He's really just a spot up 3-point shooter and shouldn't get more than 10 mins/game. Wilbekin just doesn't have the athletic ability to defend at this level. He hits a 3 in the 2nd half last night and then the very next trip down the floor 5-feet beyond the 3-point line runs right into the pick rather than going either over it or under it (the better play) and his man heads right to the hoop for a layup. He looked at the big like he was supposed to rotate over to stop the drive but that far out, just go under the pick.

I could live with CMM still starting from a relationship perspective as it's tough to bench a guy like that toward the end of his Sr. year. But Wilbekin needs to sit and stay there for a while. Rondale gives us more. He really does. Rondale picks up his man defensively way beyond the 3-point line and puts pressure on. Ideally, we'd have someone better than Rondale at the 2, but we don't right now.

Crawford, Collins, and Moore are Danny's first recruiting class with a full time to evaluate and close. They look good. I'm intrigued to see how next year's class looks. I think Washington ends up being our starting 2 before very long. Maybe he plays the 3 if Chill looks good at PG. But I think more likely is Craw at point and Washington at the 2. That's a 6'5 skilled passer and shooter at the SG spot. Big upgrade from what we have.

 

[TAG1615]

I really hope to be wrong on this, but all this talk of chill starting at pg is crazy. There is a reason he was not highly recruited and there is a reason he is ranked outside of the top 200. I have watched him play this year and get physically dominated by other high school point guards. He is tiny, he has a solid shot, but he is not a freak athlete and he will have trouble getting it off. Think Wilbekin with a slightly better stroke.

Crawford is the best passer we have had in years, I hope he plays pg for the next three years. This team was so much better when he was the pg, I could not understand last night why we constantly had cmm or wilbekin bringing the ball up the floor. Maybe run a few plays for craw off the ball to get him an open look, but he gets himself open looks and others with his great passing. He needs to be the primary ball handler again, like he was when we were winning games this year.

 

[FckVwls]

You guys are counting on a lot as a freshman from a player with Richard Washington's pedigree, AAU stats, recruiting rankings...

 

[MichDeac25]

I really hope to be wrong on this, but all this talk of chill starting at pg is crazy. There is a reason he was not highly recruited and there is a reason he is ranked outside of the top 200. I have watched him play this year and get physically dominated by other high school point guards. He is tiny, he has a solid shot, but he is not a freak athlete and he will have trouble getting it off. Think Wilbekin with a slightly better stroke.

Crawford is the best passer we have had in years, I hope he plays pg for the next three years. This team was so much better when he was the pg, I could not understand last night why we constantly had cmm or wilbekin bringing the ball up the floor. Maybe run a few plays for craw off the ball to get him an open look, but he gets himself open looks and others with his great passing. He needs to be the primary ball handler again, like he was when we were winning games this year.

I agree. Craw is a PG. I expect him to be the starting PG next year and going forward. I think Chill will be a Taron Downey type unless he really surprises. But he has a fundamentally sound stroke as does Washington, something this team really needs. But I don't expect Chill to come in starting. Washington is still a 3-star and that's because his athleticism is limited. So I'm guarded on his ability to defend but I still think a 6'5 guy with handles, heads-up passing ability, and a really good shot is better than anything we have at the 2 right now.

 

[bcobbdeacs]

TAG
They took the ball from Crawford because the Clemson defender( #12 I think) had gotten into Crawford's head with his aggressive guarding. Just a man defending a teenager. He will get better with more strength. Frankly, he was having trouble bringing the ball up court.

 

[Pilchard]

3. We are going to miss Devin, but I think we miss his defense way more than his offense. Moore is going to play a lot more next year, simply because he can defend in the halfcourt set.

Don't you mean that we are going to miss Devin's offense more than his defense?

I like Devin, and feel that has been dealt a bad hand with Bz and a weak supporting cast, but his man repeatedly scored on him in the paint, he can't defend the rim when guards go the basket, and he got beat on the defensive glass a lot. Feel like the tone for the second half was set with Clemson's very first 2nd half possession: WF was up 8; Clemson missed their first shot the rebound caromed right to Devin; he was slow to react didn't get off the floor; still got a hand on it, but didn't attack the ball; Blossomgame came from behind Devin, snatched the ball away from him, and layed it in. Clemson was on a roll from there.

One word to defend Devin: it appeared he hurt his ankle against ND, and he was not moving well last night; then again, that's something that the coaches need to see and recognize. Agree that Moore is the only player on the roster that can defend the rim. I would tell him to stay ultra aggressive; no lay-ups for the opponent, and if Moore fouls out, so be it, but he needs to play more; we give way too many points within 2 feet of the basket.

 

[daaberry]

I can't imagine Washington is going to be more game ready than Woods. Next season will be Woods' 3rd year in college and that experience has to trump what Washington can bring to the table from day one. A starting lineup of Crawford, Woods, Hudson, Collins, & Moore could have potential (I guess). You can through Dinos in there with Collins & Moore as those 3 should split the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots.

 

[MichDeac25]

I can't imagine Washington is going to be more game ready than Woods. Next season will be Woods' 3rd year in college and that experience has to trump what Washington can bring to the table from day one. A starting lineup of Crawford, Woods, Hudson, Collins, & Moore could have potential (I guess). You can through Dinos in there with Collins & Moore as those 3 should split the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots.

Very good point. I keep forgetting about Woods.

 

[DeaconSig]

I feel bad for Brandon Childress. People have overhyped him so much that he is going to get eaten alive when he is not ready to play next year (and he won't be).