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2017 NBA Draft thread - JC drafted 19th to Atlanta, OUR... Hawks?

RJKarl said:
Hey man, RC isn't saying it's a good decision. He's also saying it's not a bad decision. He's saying he's taken no sides. Nor has he looked into any of the other input. :jerkit::rolleyes:

I thought you got all of that. :laugh::bowrofl:
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It was a good decision. I'm not sure how many more times I need to say that for you to hear it.
 
RChildress107 said:
RJ there are plenty of people on here that I can have meaningful discussions with, who I consider my equal when it comes to rational thought, even a few I consider superior to myself. You are none of those.
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this why nobody likes you dawg
 
You have done something that is rarely done here. The good news is you have united the board. The bad news for you is that you have united the board against you.
 
RChildress107 said:
Meh, it's the internet
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its 2017. the internet is life.

funny thing is you are a good "rational thinker" and you usually make smart points and such. and clearly you consider yourself a smart dude. but a big part of being smart is not having everyone hate you.
 
Go read RC's posts on the NBA thread for the last month. Definitely not a "rational thinker." He's dead wrong about everything basketball related. Just awful takes.
 
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He now says JC's leaving was a good idea and alleges he never said it was a bad idea. If that's the case, why he arguing with so many people?

It's undeniable that PT is a huge (if not THE factor) in getting a bigger second contract. Yet RC tried to argue against that.

He also tried to argue that going to a better franchise should not be a big factor. Add to this, that these better franchises also had a specific need for JC. But RC felt compelled to argue against this premise.
 
Y'all shoulda seen the arguments that went down with rchildress in Carswell basement freshman year.
 
from the beginning he said that JC leaving was a good decision but that he probably would have made more money by coming back. I disagree but he didn't criticize the decision.

a problem is a lot of people think draft stock is automatically linear with few exceptions. like you're the 25th pick as freshman, if you come back you should get the teens as a soph, and if you come back again you can get the lotto!

you could make the argument pretty easily that JC maxed out his NBA draft stock this season. he put forward the most productive season in the nation, had the #1 PER in CBB. the concerns against him mostly couldn't be resolved by coming back. Chad Ford wrote in his draft post mortem that teams chose big men that were less productive because of they were longer. he can't change that. the concerns about him being able to add a perimeter weren't going to be answered by coming back, he wasn't going to be shooting 3s for our team next year. And then you're just a year older with a sub 7 wingspan and less potential in the eyes of scouts to add a perimeter game. The thing he may have had control over was improving his defense, the other major knock on him, but CBB is horrible officiated and with 5 fouls he has to be overly cautious to remain on the court.

even if you don't max out your draft stock 100%, if you get to 85%+ of your potential draft stock and a first round lock, to me logically it just makes sense to go ahead and go. it would have been cool for him to come back, he probably would have killed it and i think he could have gone late lotto but i don't see that as worth it when he had that chance this year.
 
Anybody who gets picked in the first round made the right decision. With that in hand, and the related financial security, they have every opportunity over the next few years to maximize their basketball opportunity and further their career. You can't ask for much more than that in any profession.
 
The strongest argument in support of JC coming back is related to projecting next year's draft vis a vis this year's and not related to his development as a player.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
The strongest argument in support of JC coming back is related to projecting next year's draft vis a vis this year's and not related to his development as a player.
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i don't really buy that either because it's not like he went immediately after the studs were gone. 4 not elite big man prospects went right in front of him (Bam, Patton, Wilson, Leaf). Those were typical mid-round level picks that JC outproduced in college.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
from the beginning he said that JC leaving was a good decision but that he probably would have made more money by coming back. I disagree but he didn't criticize the decision.

a problem is a lot of people think draft stock is automatically linear with few exceptions. like you're the 25th pick as freshman, if you come back you should get the teens as a soph, and if you come back again you can get the lotto!

you could make the argument pretty easily that JC maxed out his NBA draft stock this season. he put forward the most productive season in the nation, had the #1 PER in CBB. the concerns against him mostly couldn't be resolved by coming back. Chad Ford wrote in his draft post mortem that teams chose big men that were less productive because of they were longer. he can't change that. the concerns about him being able to add a perimeter weren't going to be answered by coming back, he wasn't going to be shooting 3s for our team next year. And then you're just a year older with a sub 7 wingspan and less potential in the eyes of scouts to add a perimeter game. The thing he may have had control over was improving his defense, the other major knock on him, but CBB is horrible officiated and with 5 fouls he has to be overly cautious to remain on the court.

even if you don't max out your draft stock 100%, if you get to 85%+ of your potential draft stock and a first round lock, to me logically it just makes sense to go ahead and go. it would have been cool for him to come back, he probably would have killed it and i think he could have gone late lotto but i don't see that as worth it when he had that chance this year.
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But he also refused to accept the concept that who drafts you very often matters even more to your financial future than your draft slot. The factors of the management of your first team and having PT immediately available gives the player the best opportunity to maximize his second and third contracts. Having any concept of how the league works would lead anyone to understanding this is so. Not RC.

Further, he was insistent that everyone's last year would be a the veteran minimum. Again, there are many factors that would lead to this not being true, but RC's arrogance wouldn't allow him to discuss it in a rational and civil manner.

Is next year's draft as good as this year's? Almost certainly not.
Who is in next year's draft? Lots of big guys. The big guys going high next year are projected to be better than the big guys who went this year.
Is he more likely to be picked by a bad franchise next year? Yes
Would he have put up numbers like he did this year? Almost certainly not.
Don't I think he'll improve? I have no doubt that he would.
Why wouldn't his numbers be as good or better? Because Wake will be better and because if he came back, he'd be working on threes and other aspects of his game hat would bring down his numbers.

RC wouldn't address any of those factors. And, of course, he thinks he is better than others and myself.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
i don't really buy that either because it's not like he went immediately after the studs were gone. 4 not elite big man prospects went right in front of him (Bam, Patton, Wilson, Leaf). Those were typical mid-round level picks that JC outproduced in college.
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Leaf was a good player. The others were bad picks. Patton is an example of what I have discussed several times- bad franchises make bad picks. They are set for starters in the post with KAT and the defensive stopper Dieng. It could have hurt JC's long-term earning power to be drafted by the T'Wolves just like it could easily happen next year.

Why Miami picked Bam is baffling. He can't play more than 6' from the basket and their highest paid player is exactly that guy. Riley made a really dumb pick.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
i don't really buy that either because it's not like he went immediately after the studs were gone. 4 not elite big man prospects went right in front of him (Bam, Patton, Wilson, Leaf). Those were typical mid-round level picks that JC outproduced in college.
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Don't agree but whatevs. JuuceOut on this discussion. Go JC!
 
Its fairly clear JC made the wrong decision. He comes back and he's the presason NPOY. That seemed to work out well for Chris Paul. Your shoe deal is as important as your NBA deal. A full year of Tim Duncan comparisons ain't gonna hurt him, now, most no one knows who he is unless he's an All-Star.
 
I've got a pair of Tim Duncan spider sneakers in my closet somewhere. Don't have the box any longer. They were even more uncomfortable than they were ugly.
 
palmab03 said:
Its fairly clear JC made the wrong decision. He comes back and he's the presason NPOY. That seemed to work out well for Chris Paul. Your shoe deal is as important as your NBA deal. A full year of Tim Duncan comparisons ain't gonna hurt him, now, most no one knows who he is unless he's an All-Star.
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Frank Mason was the NPOY, went in the second round to a godawful franchise, and I'm pretty sure has no shoe deal other than maybe a Scorecard at Dicks.
 
Really stupid to attribute college awards to NBA draft potential. The draft is based on analytics just as much as college production. JC could have come back and set the world on fire and still not been drafted much higher if the predictive analytics didn't change.
 
I think Miami will regret not taking JC. I don't really understand them drafting Bam unless they essentially drafted him to be backup Whiteside and plan on playing JJ 30 minutes per game at the 4. I liked who Miami had as a backup 5 last year. Cannot think of his name but he was productive the games Whiteside missed. Whiteside seems a perfect 5 if teamed up with a guy who can hit 12-18 foot jumpers. Bam seemed more an insider banger in the same vein as Whiteside.

I have to assume that Pat Riley knows a little more than me about basketball, but I just don't get it.
 
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