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2020 Carolina Panthers - New Season New Thread for 2021

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I don’t know....Moore still hasn’t impressed me. Hasn’t shown to have excellent catching hands, he doesn’t have break away speed, is a fumbler, and now looks like DBs can get under his skin and he will react. I wouldn’t call him a solid WR1
 
Moore was 10th among WR's in receptions last year and 8th in yards. If he's not a WR1, who is?
 
Jerry Rice wasn't talented, just put up a lot of fantasy stat volume.

If he's not a WR1, who is?
 
Moore has his moments, I just keep going back to Ridley being who we should've taken.
 
tigerswood said:
So DJ Moore is a better WR1 than OBJ. Got it.
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Beckham hasn't been good for three years. However, I think it's pretty clear that stats are indicative, if not determinative, of your skill as a receiver.

While Moore did put up some stinkers against the 49ers and Texans, his four highest-yardage games were:

6 receptions for 126 yards (plus 1 rush for 8) against NO (finished 13-3), in a one-score loss (34-31)
9 receptions for 120 yards against GB (finished 13-3), in a one-score loss (24-16)
8 receptions for 113 yards (plus 1 rush for 10) against Seattle (finished 11-5), in a one-score loss (30-24)
7 receptions for 101 yards against Tennessee (finished 9-7, AFCCG) in a win (30-20)

Those aren't empty calorie-numbers. If you define a WR1 as Nuk, Thomas, Julio, and Adams, Moore clearly isn't there. If you define it as a WR1 for the middle tier of teams in the league, then he is.
 
That's a bit of a stretch. Russell Westbrook says hello. But I'd still take OBJ 100 times out of 100 right now over DJ. And yes, definitely wanted Ridley pre-draft, and still do.

The idea that WR stats mean everything in terms of determining the top WRs in the league is just silly. Way too many factors can lead to over/underinflated stats - garbage time on bad teams that throw the ball constantly, multiple good WRs on a team taking away touches, etc.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Beckham hasn't been good for three years. However, I think it's pretty clear that stats are indicative, if not determinative, of your skill as a receiver.

While Moore did put up some stinkers against the 49ers and Texans, his four highest-yardage games were:

6 receptions for 126 yards (plus 1 rush for 8) against NO (finished 13-3), in a one-score loss (34-31)
9 receptions for 120 yards against GB (finished 13-3), in a one-score loss (24-16)
8 receptions for 113 yards (plus 1 rush for 10) against Seattle (finished 11-5), in a one-score loss (30-24)
7 receptions for 101 yards against Tennessee (finished 9-7, AFCCG) in a win (30-20)

Those aren't empty calorie-numbers. If you define a WR1 as Nuk, Thomas, Julio, and Adams, Moore clearly isn't there. If you define it as a WR1 for the middle tier of teams in the league, then he is.
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Beckham was good because HOF ELIte made him the best WR in the game; take away ELIte and ODB is mediocre, which has been proven.

But if the game is on the line, I'm still throwing it to ODB over Moore every single time, and that is the mark of a #1 WR. What good are fluff fantasy stats on a bad team when you know he is not going to come up with the catch when it counts? Olsen, when healthy, has been the #1 for the past few years. I would trust Robbie Anderson in a big spot over Moore.

And just end the Samuel experiment or move him to safety. Dude couldn't catch in college, couldn't catch when he got to the NFL, and can't catch now. He has been playing football since probably 6 years old and he still can't catch it, that isn't going to change. He is a destitute man's Percy Harvin whose only value is on a jet sweep or some other gimmick play.

Bridgewater looked fine. The D is atrocious, though Brown had his moments. Chin also looked good. They lost that game because of the awful 4th down call and the LBs being nowhere near the LOS to stop the run. I still can't believe they hire Joe Brady to bring some sort of 22nd century offense and he calls a fucking FB dive with a bad FB with the game on the line when CMC had been ripping them all quarter. Fast forward to game 16 of an 0-16 season and he makes that call and I think it is a fireable offense.
 
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So you said it which is kind of the point I had - he’s fine, he’s not a top WR talent which is what we were all hoping for with the first WR taken in a draft coupled with Smitty’s comments
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Beckham was good because HOF ELIte made him the best WR in the game; take away ELIte and ODB is mediocre, which has been proven.

But if the game is on the line, I'm still throwing it to ODB over Moore every single time, and that is the mark of a #1 WR. What good are fluff fantasy stats on a bad team when you know he is not going to come up with the catch when it counts? Olsen, when healthy, has been the #1 for the past few years. I would trust Robbie Anderson in a big spot over Moore.
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TCR measures the percentage of balls a receiver catches using only catchable passes. Moore’s TCR was 87.9%, which was far higher than his catchable target rate of 73.3% (ranking 74th in the league and 9th on this list). This illustrates his poor quarterback play, but also provides evidence for his great hands because that TCR ranked 19th in the league and 5th on this list. It’s also better than all 4 of his competitors who didn’t make the list.

Moore’s drop rate of 3.0% ranked 25th in the league and beats out those 4 guys yet again. He also topped their contested-catch rates at 55.6% (6th in the league) as well as their yards per game with 78.3. In short, he managed to be more efficient and more productive for the Panthers with Kyle Allen at quarterback than Keenan Allen with Phillip Rivers, Adam Thielen with Kirk Cousins, Kenny Golladay with Matthew Stafford… or his injury replacements, and Amari Cooper with Dak Prescott.

Player Profiler calculates a catch radius that accounts for a player’s ability to move laterally and vertically to catch the ball. Any score that is 10.20 or above is considered “extraordinary” for a receiver. Moore’s score of 10.24 puts him in the 89th percentile and exemplifies one of his biggest strengths as a receiver; he’s a playmaker.

https://thesportswave.net/2020/05/24/top-10-wide-receivers-based-on-advanced-statistics/

Larry Fitzgerald has six drops over the last three seasons. OBJ has seven and counting this year alone. It’s already the second-highest total of his career and it gives him a drop rate of 9.5% of catchable targets, which is among the worst 10 wideouts in the NFL.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-odell-beckham-jr-has-been-part-of-the-problem-in-cleveland-browns

I'd rather rely on (to some extent--again, they're indicative, not determinative) "fantasy stats" in evaluating receivers than four-year-old highlights of one-handed grabs.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Beckham was good because HOF ELIte made him the best WR in the game; take away ELIte and ODB is mediocre, which has been proven.

But if the game is on the line, I'm still throwing it to ODB over Moore every single time, and that is the mark of a #1 WR. What good are fluff fantasy stats on a bad team when you know he is not going to come up with the catch when it counts? Olsen, when healthy, has been the #1 for the past few years. I would trust Robbie Anderson in a big spot over Moore.

And just end the Samuel experiment or move him to safety. Dude couldn't catch in college, couldn't catch when he got to the NFL, and can't catch now. He has been playing football since probably 6 years old and he still can't catch it, that isn't going to change. He is a destitute man's Percy Harvin whose only value is on a jet sweep or some other gimmick play.

Bridgewater looked fine. The D is atrocious, though Brown had his moments. Chin also looked good. They lost that game because of the awful 4th down call and the LBs being nowhere near the LOS to stop the run. I still can't believe they hire Joe Brady to bring some sort of 22nd century offense and he calls a fucking FB dive with a bad FB with the game on the line when CMC had been ripping them all quarter. Fast forward to game 16 of an 0-16 season and he makes that call and I think it is a fireable offense.
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He's alive!!!!! Now let Townie out of your basement.
 
tigerswood said:
That's a bit of a stretch. Russell Westbrook says hello. But I'd still take OBJ 100 times out of 100 right now over DJ. And yes, definitely wanted Ridley pre-draft, and still do.

The idea that WR stats mean everything in terms of determining the top WRs in the league is just silly. Way too many factors can lead to over/underinflated stats - garbage time on bad teams that throw the ball constantly, multiple good WRs on a team taking away touches, etc.
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I'm with you on Westbrook, but Ridley is the literal definition of a garbage time WR...

"Both of Ridley's touchdowns came in the final 9:35 of the game, the first on an 18-yard reception and the second on a 7-yard completion with 0:33 left in the game."
 
Fast forward to mark 1:20 to see how DJ just doesn't have breakaway speed. Sad.


 
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