• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

ESPN Article on WF Football

To follow up on the point above, we've played 22 games since Lobo thought "Ok, we've got it figured out. We have our offensive identity." after the 2011 35-30 win over FSU. Since that game, we've gone 8-14 averaging 19.4 ppg. We've only scored over 30 twice since. Last year against Army (49) and this season against Presby (31).
 
I didn't say, nor did Grobe say, that only he can win at Wake. It's simply a fact that he's well respected and generally thought of as a great coach. Everyone burns out eventually, anyone can get lazy. Anyone can let personal relationships get in the way of making sound decisions. Some or all of that is obviously happening right now, or has been happening for a while.

Did the 2006-2008 teams have talent? Sure. I think it's a huge stretch to say they had more talent than most of their opponents, as if having a couple short-term NFL guys is some huge deal nobody in the ACC ever experiences. Sure, it's rare for Wake. But we were absolutely still at a talent deficit overall in most of those years. Without the redshirt program and what I still believe were inspired coaching performances, we don't win on pure recruiting, even with those classes.

Who's arguing we should never fire Grobe? Is he not being listed as being on the hot seat? You twist rational dissatisfaction that boiling over this year as some "cult of Grobe" reckoning. To most people it's pretty objectively reasonable that he still has a job this year, and that the strides he made at Wake earned him a lot of leeway. And now he's on the hot seat. I don't know what you're expecting.
 
We had a ton of talent on those defenses and that's why I had a hard time with all the people saying this year's defense was going to be so good. The talent on our defense from 2006 to 2008 isn't even comparable in my opinion to this years defense. How many guys starting on defense would've started over the guys on those defenses? Honestly the only one I can come up with is Kevin Johnson starting at corner opposite of Phonz. I love Nikita, but I wouldn't start him over Boo Robinson or John Russell.

Phonz was the nickel behind Patterson and Swanson in 2006 and started opposite Brandon Ghee in 2007 and 2008. Kevin Johnson would not have started for any of those teams. Nobody on this defense would have started from 2006-08. We had one of the best defenses in the country. 12th in scoring defense in 2006, 28th in 2007 (but keep in mind the defense scored several TDs as well), and 16th in 2008.
 
I can tell you that the palyers hate this article as well. Its a looser mentality......
 
Grobe sounds like a completely different coach than when he started here. His teams' effort and play reflects that, unfortunately. I hope he rights the ship but I don't see any hope for that this season.
 
Phonz was the nickel behind Patterson and Swanson in 2006 and started opposite Brandon Ghee in 2007 and 2008. Kevin Johnson would not have started for any of those teams. Nobody on this defense would have started from 2006-08. We had one of the best defenses in the country. 12th in scoring defense in 2006, 28th in 2007 (but keep in mind the defense scored several TDs as well), and 16th in 2008.

Yeah, I know, I was using the more known players from that era. I do think Johnson is as good as Ghee though, although Ghee probably does have an edge in tackling. I also think Johnson is better than Swanson, although I thought the job he did on Megatron in the title game was huge for us that day.
 
“I don’t think it’s a program thing, it’s just the way Wake Forest is always going to be,” “We’re going to be a team that’s got some talented kids, we’re not overly talented, we don’t have a lot of depth. We can’t afford too many injuries like what happened to us last year. But more than anything else, we’re just a team that’s capable, but we’ve really got to play good every week. Some teams are talented enough that they can have four or five down weeks a year and still play good enough to win, but Wake is not that way. We’ll never be that way in this league, or even with the teams we play nonconference. We’re a team that has to play good every Saturday, and any time we don’t play pretty good, we’re not going to win.”

I hate that quote so so so so much. It's a defeatist mentality. Jim Grobe knows better than anyone that outstanding accomplishments are possible at Wake. You can't lower your own standard and say "we can't."

That quote sums up the LOWF attitude that drives me nuts. Why the fuck do we have a coach who doesn't believe that Wake can do any better. Fuck you Grobe. We are paying you 2.9 million to tell the entire world that we can't win at Wake Forest.
 
Swanson had a strong senior season overall to recover from a relatively poor sophomore and junior year. His experience was huge that season. And if Phonz didn't start over him, Johnson wouldn't have.
 
Swanson had a strong senior season overall to recover from a relatively poor sophomore and junior year. His experience was huge that season. And if Phonz didn't start over him, Johnson wouldn't have.

Yeah, but Phonz had a pretty bad soph slump, so the Phonz of 2006 wasn't the Phonz of 2007 and 2008.
 
True. But he was still a talented player who did nice work at the nickel.

Doesn't matter though. It makes your point that we can only have a legitimate discussion about one defensive player as a starter on the 2006-08 teams.
 
To follow up on the point above, we've played 22 games since Lobo thought "Ok, we've got it figured out. We have our offensive identity." after the 2011 35-30 win over FSU. Since that game, we've gone 8-14 averaging 19.4 ppg. We've only scored over 30 twice since. Last year against Army (49) and this season against Presby (31).

Sorry to quote myself, but we had Givens and Camp! The last 7 games of Chris Givens' career at Wake and we only averaged 18 points.
 
we looks like suckers giving this guy well over 2 million $ per year to tell us that you can't win here.
 
True. But he was still a talented player who did nice work at the nickel.

Doesn't matter though. It makes your point that we can only have a legitimate discussion about one defensive player as a starter on the 2006-08 teams.

Exactly. Hard to believe there isn't at least one guy on this year's defense you can definitely say would've started on those defenses.
 
Last edited:
we looks like suckers giving this guy well over 2 million $ per year to tell us that you can't win here.

I tell you one thing, time will tell if Franklin can have long-term success at Vandy, but he sure as heck hasn't embraced a "LOV" attitude in Nashville.
 
I tell you one thing, time will tell if Franklin can have long-term success at Vandy, but he sure as heck hasn't embraced a "LOV" attitude in Nashville.

Neither has Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Art Briles is trying to become the premier program in the state of Texas, as is Kevin Sumlin at A&M. Jim Mora is trying to (and is) become the best team in Los Angeles.
 
I didn't say, nor did Grobe say, that only he can win at Wake. It's simply a fact that he's well respected and generally thought of as a great coach. Everyone burns out eventually, anyone can get lazy. Anyone can let personal relationships get in the way of making sound decisions. Some or all of that is obviously happening right now, or has been happening for a while.

Did the 2006-2008 teams have talent? Sure. I think it's a huge stretch to say they had more talent than most of their opponents, as if having a couple short-term NFL guys is some huge deal nobody in the ACC ever experiences. Sure, it's rare for Wake. But we were absolutely still at a talent deficit overall in most of those years. Without the redshirt program and what I still believe were inspired coaching performances, we don't win on pure recruiting, even with those classes.

Who's arguing we should never fire Grobe? Is he not being listed as being on the hot seat? You twist rational dissatisfaction that boiling over this year as some "cult of Grobe" reckoning. To most people it's pretty objectively reasonable that he still has a job this year, and that the strides he made at Wake earned him a lot of leeway. And now he's on the hot seat. I don't know what you're expecting.

Agree with everything in this post.

Will also say that the head coach of a football program should never say what Grobe said even if there is truth in it.
 
Last edited:
Ha, not my tag about Grobe speaking the truth, so at least someone else out there gets it.

Big difference between recognizing our very real limitations and coming up with a scheme to overcome them and taking a LOWF attitude that we can't compete. Treating a bowl game as the pinnacle and falling all over one decent recruit in the pre-Grobe years was more in line with LOWF to me.
 
Neither has Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Art Briles is trying to become the premier program in the state of Texas, as is Kevin Sumlin at A&M. Jim Mora is trying to (and is) become the best team in Los Angeles.

And I can assure you those coaches are getting a lot more latitude, support and expectations from their administrations than a coach has at Wake.
 
Neither has Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Art Briles is trying to become the premier program in the state of Texas, as is Kevin Sumlin at A&M. Jim Mora is trying to (and is) become the best team in Los Angeles.

I'll accept the comparisons to Northwestern and Vandy to some degree. But, A&M and UCLA???
 
Back
Top