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Food Deserts: Myth or Reality?

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84Deac

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84Deac said:
The NYT, of all places, ran an article last week questioning one of the Democrats' pet issues of the last few years: food deserts. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=3&hp%28though

If food deserts don't exist and there is no connection between available food options and obesity, I guess that means that people need to be more accountable for their choices?
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um...

"Within a couple of miles of almost any urban neighborhood, “you can get basically any type of food,” said Roland Sturm of the RAND Corporation, lead author of one of the studies. “Maybe we should call it a food swamp rather than a desert,” he said."

A couple of miles is a very long way for a single parent without a vehicle, especially in a place without abundant public transportation...
 
These studies shoot some pretty serious holes in the food desert theory. I think, and have always thought, that the issue of poor diet and obesity in this country was a lot more about (a) poor or nonexistent education about food choices, (b) rampant government interference in the food markets through our insane agricultural subsidy system, depressing the price of meat and encouraging the consumption of sugar (both corn and cane-based) and (c) as a contributing factor, the terrible diet we feed kids in the public schools, largely as a result of Congress conspiring with Big Agra lobbyists to do things like treat pizza and french fries as a vegetable serving.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
um...

"Within a couple of miles of almost any urban neighborhood, “you can get basically any type of food,” said Roland Sturm of the RAND Corporation, lead author of one of the studies. “Maybe we should call it a food swamp rather than a desert,” he said."

A couple of miles is a very long way for a single parent without a vehicle, especially in a place without abundant public transportation...
Click to expand...

Yep. Pair that with the quote from Michelle Obama that for some reason they're disputing:

Speaking in October on the South Side of Chicago, she said that in too many neighborhoods “if people want to buy a head of lettuce or salad or some fruit for their kid’s lunch, they have to take two or three buses, maybe pay for a taxicab, in order to do it.”​
If you don't have access to efficient public transportation and especially if you live in a bad neighborhood, just walking to the local grocery store just isn't a viable option.

My only guess if that the "food swamp" comment was meant to suggest that there is water but it's not really available for practical use.
 
From my relatively limited studies on "food deserts" nutrition really seems to be the issue. However, grocers, fast food and convenience stores are reacting to the demands of their customers. It's not their responsibility to keep people healthy. I still don't get why the poor are treated as if they have some chronic affliction.
 
You I definitely thought this was a thread slamming peanut butter parfaits and I was ready to come in here guns blazing. ImTheCaptain has it right.
 
2012-04-23-91047d9.png
 
Absolutely a reality. I live somewhat in the middle of one. It's a decent hike to a grocery store, but the corner stores are only 3-4 blocks away, and they will gladly take food stamps. I regularly use public transportation and/or walk to the store, so I know the routes and know what I pain it would be for some of my neighbors to get to a proper grocery store or farmer's market. Especially with kids. "A couple of miles" is a long way when you don't have a car. You can't make a trip to the market every 4-5 days for fresh produce. It's a lot easier to find someone to watch your kids, make one trip to Walmart, and come back with enough cheap frozen food to last a while.

Now, as to the cause of food deserts, whether they contribute significantly to obesity, and whether or not there is enough demand for fresh meat/produce to support the supply within those areas, those still seem to be unanswered questions. Purely anecdotal, but I can say that some of my neighbors have been extremely willing to take any bumper crops we've seen from our garden so far. There is a new farmer's market about to open a few blocks from my house and I believe they plan on taking food stamps, so we'll see what the demand looks like there. I think there's a much larger culture and education issue at play though, and folks I know who work for charities or non-profits in the field say that to be the most important issue. Simply providing food sources won't change peoples' habits.
 
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Fried food tastes awesome. I should know I live in Mississippi and we are number 1!








..... in obesity.
 
Even if people have access to fresh produce it doesn't mean they will choose it. Produce takes time to prepare and lots of people don't have that time. And in some cases knowledge of how to cook anything is disappearing. But if you are working two jobs and just need something, anything, to eat, are you going to the farmers market to buy five things for a salad, or are you going through the drive thru?
 
HeavyPetter said:
And in some cases knowledge of how to cook anything is disappearing.
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Good point.

RacerDeac said:
Purely anecdotal, but I can say that some of my neighbors have been extremely willing to take any bumper crops we've seen from our garden so far.
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The neighbors we've shared food with from the garden have all been 50+ and in good health. There's definitely something generational at play when it comes to eating habits, and it extends across most socioeconomic boundaries. I know tons of college educated 30 somethings making $100K+ as a family or $70K+ individually (i.e. money is not a factor in whether they eat healthily or not) who can't prepare a frozen bagged stir-fry dinner much less cook greens from scratch.
 
I didnt read the article but I think I lived in one of these deserts for a while. Nothing but fast food and chain resteraunts. Everyone got fat.
 
There are exponentially more obese people in the US than those who simply live in "food deserts" without adequate transportation. It may be a factor in our obesity problem, but it isn't close to the driving force. I commend Michelle Obama for her efforts in the area of exercise and nutrition, and bringing this issue to light because it does exist, but I think focusing too much effort and blame on this particular cause deflects criticism from the primary reasons. For most obese people, they have access to both healthy and unhealthy foods, and cost really isn't the issue. An apple costs less than a side of fries, a bowl of Special K or Cheerios with fruit costs a lot less than a McMuffin value meal, and neither take more time to acquire or eat. Walk through any Super Walmart and you need a forklift to move the heffers out of the soda and frozen food aisles to get your cart through, yet there is plenty of inexpensive meat and produce right at the front of the store.
 
RacerDeac said:
Absolutely a reality. I live somewhat in the middle of one. It's a decent hike to a grocery store, but the corner stores are only 3-4 blocks away, and they will gladly take food stamps. I regularly use public transportation and/or walk to the store, so I know the routes and know what I pain it would be for some of my neighbors to get to a proper grocery store or farmer's market. Especially with kids. "A couple of miles" is a long way when you don't have a car. You can't make a trip to the market every 4-5 days for fresh produce. It's a lot easier to find someone to watch your kids, make one trip to Walmart, and come back with enough cheap frozen food to last a while.

Now, as to the cause of food deserts, whether they contribute significantly to obesity, and whether or not there is enough demand for fresh meat/produce to support the supply within those areas, those still seem to be unanswered questions. Purely anecdotal, but I can say that some of my neighbors have been extremely willing to take any bumper crops we've seen from our garden so far. There is a new farmer's market about to open a few blocks from my house and I believe they plan on taking food stamps, so we'll see what the demand looks like there. I think there's a much larger culture and education issue at play though, and folks I know who work for charities or non-profits in the field say that to be the most important issue. Simply providing food sources won't change peoples' habits.
Click to expand...

Some valid points, Racer. I will be interested to hear how the new farmer's market does. Someone apparently thinks there is enough demand for fresh produce in the area to open it. I hope they are successful. But I agree about the cultural and educational issues. Couple those with the lack of accountability for bad choices (and in reality, the negative impact for those decisions could be years off) and you have a difficult problem to correct.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
A couple of miles is a very long way for a single parent without a vehicle, especially in a place without abundant public transportation...
Click to expand...

Its called exercise. Its good for you, and its relatively convenient in pedestrain-friendly urban areas. I guess its just not as convenient as calling Dominos Pizza. Many urban neighborhoods have chinese delivery, which can be very healthy, but I guess its not as tasty as pizza.

Michelle Obama is hard-pressed to blame capitalism (or society or whatnot) for obseity in urban areas, when obesity is primarily based on personal choice. Many suburban neighborhoods are also limited to fast-food options, but obseity doesn't seem to be as much of a problem there.
 
84Deac said:
Some valid points, Racer. I will be interested to hear how the new farmer's market does. Someone apparently thinks there is enough demand for fresh produce in the area to open it. I hope they are successful. But I agree about the cultural and educational issues. Couple those with the lack of accountability for bad choices (and in reality, the negative impact for those decisions could be years off) and you have a difficult problem to correct.
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Urban area. $700K houses are 2-3 blocks from $40K houses. In some cases, $300K houses sit next to $80K houses. The market will be there whether the poorer residents buy or not.
 
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