• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Grading the season

Hey OGB - nice research but maybe some dates as to when those post were made and how that correlated to a specific topic, our record at the time and the boards general feeling about the progress might add a little context.

I'm a proud Wake grad and absolutely want DM to succeed...we've been on the coaching carousel way too long...Ive posted that too.
 
Shake said:
Hey OGB - nice research but maybe some dates as to when those post were made and how that correlated to a specific topic, our record at the time and the boards general feeling about the progress might add a little context.

I'm a proud Wake grad and absolutely want DM to succeed...we've been on the coaching carousel way too long...Ive posted that too.
Click to expand...

There is no context that makes those posts reasonable.
 
Shake said:
Hey OGB - nice research but maybe some dates as to when those post were made and how that correlated to a specific topic, our record at the time and the boards general feeling about the progress might add a little context.

I'm a proud Wake grad and absolutely want DM to succeed...we've been on the coaching carousel way too long...Ive posted that too.
Click to expand...

the first three quoted were in January of 2017, including the "Wes is as qualified as DM" and "we won't make the postseason"
 
Shake said:
RC...just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are wrong or don't get it. I know you're a DM homer and the difference between us is that while I wanted NIT when the season started we played well enough to be in a position to far exceed what we ended up with. I'm tired of going through coaches so I want him to succeed.

My question to you.... if JC doesn't return what would you grade DM next year if we finish 10th or worse and no NCAA bid?

Would love you to go on record here....
Click to expand...

It obviously depends on how close we are to getting in. If we go 18-12, 9-9 again but are the first team out then he probably gets a C+\B- for the season and drops to a B for overall rebuild.

My expectations for next year with or without Collins are for us to build on this year. That means above .500 in the ACC, single digit seed in NCAA, round of 32 appearance and top 30 in all advanced metrics, an improved defense and some good news on the 2018/2019 recruiting trail. If he does all that he gets an A+ on the rebuild and then it's all about maintaining and building upon success.

That also earns him an A in the season if Collins doesn't come back. If Collins comes back then the expectations are obviously much higher.
 
RJKarl said:
If we beat KState and lost to Cinci, the same people who are bitching about losing to KState would say, "We shouldn't have lost to them. It's on Danny." THis group , like you, doesn't give the credit that was earned this year and wouldn't unless we beat UCLA.
Click to expand...

One thing, I believe, DM needs look at is how stubborn he can be. I remember the article from a couple years ago where he said 'we are playing man defense, period', it took a long time for him to ever use a zone, even though it was clear we didn't really have the players for man defense. I think a similar thing went on with Moore at the end of the season (unless someone knows facts), Moore got in the dog house, but when VT and K-State had an open lane to the basket DM didn't even attempt to use Moore. The one thing I have confidence in from Moore is that he will block and alter shots if he's under the rim. If he's effective the other teams players start thinking twice about going in there even when he's out because we changed the feeling of security going to the rim.

Just my impression, which was formed by quotes and story that was published. Seriously, he does use a zone now, so all I can say is that he will stick a long time with a view point before giving it up.
 
Damn OGB...

Without JC I am worries about a 3pt or die offense. I think RChildress107 corrected me a few days ago when he said Dinos can be an offensive cog in the wheel next year. I think he is correct in retrospect. I wonder if they put him at PF or C and I am not quite as optimistic of our others C improving a lot over the offseason. I have been wrong before, I hope I am again.
 
RC- you and I are exactly on the same page as to expectations for next year... single digit seed w or w/o JC.

If we all discuss Wake sports in a collegial manner we all probably agree more than disagree.
 
Junebug said:
I thought my point was clear: your argument about the genius and the dummy is flawed because it proves too much. To wit:

At every school I ever went to, the genius who didn't study and got an 85 still got a B despite the fact he failed to exceed expectations of him, just like the dummy who studied his ass of and got an 85 still got a B despite the fact he exceeded expectations of him.

As the above demonstrates, your argument undercuts using expectations as a metric for grading, despite the fact everyone seems to agree that failing to meet/meeting/exceeding expectations is at least one proper metric.

In any event, I think Manning is doing a very good job. He has exceeded my expectations, at least for this season, and we are better than I thought we would be in year 3. I'm particularly impressed with Collins's development, and I'm hopeful that his success with Collins (assuming Collins's blossoming was due, at least in part, to Manning's coaching) will help us land better recruits. However, I don't feel like Manning maximized the potential of this team. He had a second team all-American big man, an ACC honorable mention guard (should have been, anyway), and some solid role players. As the season progressed, I thought we had several close games that we should have won, and I was very disappointed in our post-season. I wish Manning had switched defenses against both VPI (tourney game) and KSU when it became clear man wasn't getting the job done, and I was thoroughly disappointed with the effort and the pathetic defense in the KSU game. I think both of those are on the coach.

In the end, I think that Manning gets a B or B+. I hope recruiting gets a bump from Collins and us making the dance and that Manning learns from his mistakes. I'm optimistic that both of these things will happen.
Click to expand...

You are conflating expectations and potential (or maybe I am not artfully using the term expectations). I'm talking about an objective standard that one's performance is measured against.

A teacher many "expect" more from the genius than the kid of average intelligence, but ultimately should apply the same objective standard when grading them.

So when grading Manning we should identify an objective standard that was reasonable prior to the season.
 
Offense is a B+. Defense is an F+/D-. Overall result is a C+. Going into the year any of us would have been pleased with an NCAA bid, but none of us realized JC had improved so much. Once you realized we have a lottery pick at C then the result is a bit of a disappointment. Our offensive was really good, good system that took advantage of our strengths. Defense was unspeakably terrible. No way to defend it. No way to make excuses. We were absolutely awful. It was a disgrace. Limited athleticism at some spots and some lineups that had small guards but no excuse for our ineptitude.
 
89deac said:
Offense is a B+. Defense is an F+/D-. Overall result is a C+. Going into the year any of us would have been pleased with an NCAA bid, but none of us realized JC had improved so much. Once you realized we have a lottery pick at C then the result is a bit of a disappointment. Our offensive was really good, good system that took advantage of our strengths. Defense was unspeakably terrible. No way to defend it. No way to make excuses. We were absolutely awful. It was a disgrace. Limited athleticism at some spots and some lineups that had small guards but no excuse for our ineptitude.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
Very good points. We would have rightfully had higher expectations if Manning hadn't held Collins back last year.
 
89deac said:
Offense is a B+. Defense is an F+/D-. Overall result is a C+. Going into the year any of us would have been pleased with an NCAA bid, but none of us realized JC had improved so much. Once you realized we have a lottery pick at C then the result is a bit of a disappointment. Our offensive was really good, good system that took advantage of our strengths. Defense was unspeakably terrible. No way to defend it. No way to make excuses. We were absolutely awful. It was a disgrace. Limited athleticism at some spots and some lineups that had small guards but no excuse for our ineptitude.
Click to expand...

So no one expected Manning to put a team on the court that would get us to the tourney, Manning puts a team on the floor that gets us to the tourney and he gets a C?

Y'all are basically penalizing Manning for putting too good a team on the floor this season.
 
RC, even going into Ish's senior year, PH didn't think Ish was an ACC quality player. This is an important point of reference.

Nobody with a grain of bball knowledge could say Danny "held Collins back" last year.
 
B+, No one predicted Wake making the dance in year 3, Manning did a pretty good job.
 
RC107, I realize you gave Manning a solid B for the season. How did you arrive at that score?
 
BigDeac8 said:
B+, No one predicted Wake making the dance in year 3, Manning did a pretty good job.
Click to expand...

agree with this. Being picked to finish 13th in the ACC and making the NCAAT was definitely not expected. It was a sour end to the season, but we made some strides.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top