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Great Article on Fudged College Sports Attendance Numbers

PhDeac

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From a USF blogger:
http://www.voodoofive.com/2014/1/14...tended-season-in-the-bcs-era-for-usf-football

We submitted a public records request to the Tampa Sports Authority for the actual attendance of every game USF Football has ever played, and here's what we found: USF is losing ground in terms of attendance and support, and 2013 saw the greatest padding of attendance numbers in team history.

The announced attendance by the TSA, which can be requested after each game, is the actual number of people that scanned a ticket (including students that used their ID back in the day) to enter either Tampa Stadium (1997) or Raymond James Stadium (1998-Present) to watch a USF Football game.
...

A few caveats:
1. Every school lies about attendance. There's fudging everywhere, but the amount of extreme fudging lately is almost comical.

2. We're not breaking any NCAA rules. According to the 2012-13 NCAA Statistics' Policies & Guidelines: "Attendance figures for official box scores and/or NCAA reports can be calculated by turnstile count, tickets sold or estimates." It's just that our "estimates" are getting less and less credible.

3. The writer of this story has helped to make up attendance numbers for games at multiple schools (USF and Delaware State). If at a USF Baseball game in 2004 one team had two runs on five hits and one error in the bottom of the eighth inning, the attendance very likely could be 251. The attendance could be someone's birthday, or a player's batting average if they were on a hot streak. The press box as a group made it up. Basically every school does this for Olympic sports with lousy attendance. But obviously the standard is usually much different for revenue sports.

...

* The five games with largest percentage difference between announced and actual attendance in history:

Davidson '97 (27,919 - 12,811, 45.89%)
Memphis '13 (30,831 - 14,795, 47.99%)
Charleston Southern '97 (25,361 - 12,226 48.21%)
Liberty '01 (21,056 - 10,288 48.86%)
SMU '13 (28,397 - 14,240 50.15%)


* The five games with the least percentage difference between announced and actual attendance in history:

Citadel '98 (32,598 - 31,452 96.48%)
Kentucky Wesleyan '97 (49,212 - 46,406 94.3%)
Louisville '03 (36,044 - 33,247 92.24%)
West Virginia '07 (67,012 - 61,664 92.02%)
C. Florida '05 (45,139 - 40,988 90.8%)


Notice that's five of the iconic games in USF history: the first-ever game at Raymond James Stadium, the first-ever game, the first C-USA game, the biggest game in team history at home after beating Auburn, and the first C. Florida game. So when things are going well, the spread between announced and actual is much smaller than usual.
 
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From a USF blogger:
...
A few caveats:
1. Every school lies about attendance. There's fudging everywhere, but the amount of extreme fudging lately is almost comical.

2. We're not breaking any NCAA rules. According to the 2012-13 NCAA Statistics' Policies & Guidelines: "Attendance figures for official box scores and/or NCAA reports can be calculated by turnstile count, tickets sold or estimates." It's just that our "estimates" are getting less and less credible.
...

So RW's excuse for lying is that "everybody does it" and "it's not against the rules".

Yeah, you gotta love that new "culture" that Nathan Hatch is so proud of...
 
These numbers are based on scanned tickets, not tickets sold. In Wake's case, the numbers would be further distorted by the fact that so many of our scanned tickets for last season were giveaways.
 
Great Article on Fugded College Sports Attendance Numbers

I wonder if ownership of the facility makes it easier/harder to acquire turnstile count. If Wake owns BBT and the Joel (as opposed to a municipal authority like TSA), are they subject to the same demands? Is turnstile count still public record? I doubt it but don't know for sure.
 
I wonder if ownership of the facility makes it easier/harder to acquire turnstile count. If Wake owns BBT and the Joel (as opposed to a municipal authority like TSA), are they subject to the same demands? Is turnstile count still public record? I doubt it but don't know for sure.

Wake's numbers would not be public any longer because it's a private facility owned by a private school.

Anyone up for submitting a public records request for the last 10 years of games at LJVM before Wake purchased it?
 
Related question....

BB&T has continued to have a stated 'seating' capacity of 31,500 for decades....even after the opening of Deacon Tower, which due to construction, first destroyed several rows of seats atop the grandstand and then added 'X' number of suite, club and press seats upon completion. Next we removed multiple rows of bench seats on both grandstands and installed fewer seats via individual 'stadium' seats. Then we added the temporary bleacher ( 700 seats ? ) in front of Bridger and added 2 field level, covered boxes that appear to each accomodate about 20 folks each.

The ND game reportedly drew 36,340-something so I get that being the OFFICIAL standard for an SRO CAPACITY crowd. But what da heck is our OFFICIAL SEATING CAPACITY at BB&T after all the construction and seating changes ? I think ya have to have that updated as pretty spot-on to satisfy the local Fire Marshall, no ?
 
I don't think the stated capacity for BBT even takes Deacon Hill into account. Which is pretty dumb.
 
"Attendance figures for official box scores and/or NCAA reports can be calculated by turnstile count, tickets sold or estimates."
I think this reflects what a lot of us have suspected for years now- the official attendance figures at Wake have little basis in reality. They can simply come up with a very favorable guess and that's okay according to the NCAA rules. I seriously doubt the numbers are even related to tickets sold. Would be nice if Dan got to the bottom of this.
 
Two days after I started this thread, USF AD Doug Woolard announced he would retire in June 2015. Not related but interesting. He's been taking a lot of heat. Not as bad as Wellman through. Skip Holtz, Stan Heath, and now Willie Taggart were all solid hires at the time and he did cut Holtz lose.
 
Why would Dan give 2 shits about this?

Because if the AD has been using phony attendance numbers for years to bolster the belief that things aren't as bad as they appear to be, that's a newsworthy story for the Wake beat writer.
 
The only test that is accurate and trustworthy is the test that the WFU fans have been using the last few years called THE EYE TEST.
 
The high number of tickets sold reflects the high level of support for Wake Forest's basketball program. The low number of butts in seats reflects the low level of support for Jeff [Redacted]'s basketball program.

Ron "SpinMonster" Wellman should be able to leverage our "attendance" numbers in the recruiting process for a new coach.
 
Because if the AD has been using phony attendance numbers for years to bolster the belief that things aren't as bad as they appear to be, that's a newsworthy story for the Wake beat writer.

it's not newsworthy because:

1. Every school lies about attendance. There's fudging everywhere, but the amount of extreme fudging lately is almost comical.
 
it's not newsworthy because:

Because something is commonplace it's not newsworthy? Besides, the practice is not well known. Most people aren't aware of what's going on- in previous discussions people on here would argue our attendance was based on tickets sold. It could be. Or it could simply be a very favorable guesstimate designed to mislead the fanbase and media into thinking all is well. It's a no-brainer that this is a newsworthy issue for the Wake beat reporter.
 
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