• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Hang it! (Alondes Williams ACC POY, 1st Team All-ACC)

Heard Mike Gminiski mention on several occasions and as recently as our last game say Williams is his choice for POY. From a Duke alum at that.
 
It's certainly been an impressive improvement in the regular season. 5th is a giant climb.

None of that means you build statues for folks for 5th. I agree, let's wait and see and hope. Because the reality before us right now is that we have a chance to put away some of the most horrible current streaks going in sports: Wake Forest basketball in March

To recap just how horribly the last 25 years have gone (not 10...as some would have you believe), let's look at the results this team could help correct.

In the last 25 years, the Deacs have had on their roster two of the top 25 basketball players of ALL-TIME. Despite that:

WF has not even APPEARED in an ACC Championship game in 25 years. (nor even in the Semis since 2006)
WF has 1 Sweet 16 in 25 years
WF is 0-1 in the ACC quarters since 2007 (let that sink in).
WF has won one game in the round of 12 in the ACC Tournament (2006)
WF has not even appeared in the 64 team NCAA Tournament since 2010

We have accomplished less with all that talent over 25 years then any team in the P5.

Oregon State has traditionally been our other candidate for all time pathetic March success.
They did more last year than we have combined in 25 years. (They are now 3-27 this season!)

If we can really dent those putrid stats above, you will have a real season. If not, it's just another giant disappointment for anyone objectively looking WF hoops place in the overall national picture. So while it's great to celebrate this GIANT climb, it's also no time to be retiring jerseys or truly evaluating the season.
 
You forgot that we managed to lose an ACCT game when there wasn’t even an ACCT. Hard to do that.
 
I did not read the ten pages but had been thinking about this and wondered if a banner with the five seniors(grad students) could be a banner. Changed the program or saved the program is reason enough for me. Walking out of the Joel on Wednesday I said to the Usher lady 12 years..... It been our time in the wilderness.
 
MikeDeac said:
I did not read the ten pages but had been thinking about this and wondered if a banner with the five seniors(grad students) could be a banner. Changed the program or saved the program is reason enough for me. Walking out of the Joel on Wednesday I said to the Usher lady 12 years..... It been our time in the wilderness.
Click to expand...

I like this idea. Honor this team in some way for bringing us back from a very dark place. But you don't retire a one and done (even if its a grad transfer) unless they deliver a final four. If they do that, you can rename the arena the Man Man Center for all I care.
 
donaldross said:
It's certainly been an impressive improvement in the regular season. 5th is a giant climb.

None of that means you build statues for folks for 5th. I agree, let's wait and see and hope. Because the reality before us right now is that we have a chance to put away some of the most horrible current streaks going in sports: Wake Forest basketball in March

To recap just how horribly the last 25 years have gone (not 10...as some would have you believe), let's look at the results this team could help correct.

In the last 25 years, the Deacs have had on their roster two of the top 25 basketball players of ALL-TIME. Despite that:

WF has not even APPEARED in an ACC Championship game in 25 years. (nor even in the Semis since 2006)
WF has 1 Sweet 16 in 25 years
WF is 0-1 in the ACC quarters since 2007 (let that sink in).
WF has won one game in the round of 12 in the ACC Tournament (2006)
WF has not even appeared in the 64 team NCAA Tournament since 2010

We have accomplished less with all that talent over 25 years then any team in the P5.

Oregon State has traditionally been our other candidate for all time pathetic March success.
They did more last year than we have combined in 25 years. (They are now 3-27 this season!)

If we can really dent those putrid stats above, you will have a real season. If not, it's just another giant disappointment for anyone objectively looking WF hoops place in the overall national picture. So while it's great to celebrate this GIANT climb, it's also no time to be retiring jerseys or truly evaluating the season.
Click to expand...
Street and Smith (college basketball Bible at that time in 2005) published this list ranking college basketball programs all time. Where we were prior to Forbes is all self inflicted. If you take the teams off this list who no longer have a chance to be as good as they once were due to power 5/6 dynamics there is no reason Wake can't be a top 25 program or higher with just an average coach. Considering Forbes isn't average, seems we can get back there. Then add more facility enhancements we good.

, 2005

#12

1 Kentucky
2 UCLA
3 UNC
4 Kansas
5 Duke
6 Indiana
7 Louisville
8 Arkansas
9 UCONN
10 Cincinnati
11 Utah
12 Ohio State
13 Oklahoma State
14 Arizona
15 Syracuse
16 Penn
17 NCSU
18 St John's
19 Princeton
20 Temple
21 Georgetown
22 Kansas State
23 Texas
24 Oklahoma
25 Michigan State
26 Michigan
27 Illinois
28 UNLV
29 San Francisco
30 Purdue
31 Western Kentucky
32 Villanova
33 Marquette
34 West Virginia
35 Maryland
36 BYU
37 Houston
38 Missouri
39 Notre Dame
40 Iowa
41 Cal
42 Wyoming
43 Saint Joe's
44 Stanford
45 Creighton
46 Wake Forest
47 Miami of Ohio
48 Xavier
49 UTEP
50 LSU
 
If this team really does reach the Final 4, you are dead right. That’s a program changer worthy of all kinds of banners.

And if we beat Pittsburgh or some such and actually win a Round of 12 game, that’s no small deal either given our history, but despite how elusive that ACC quarterfinal APPEARANCE has been, it’s not banner worthy.
 
scooter84 said:
I would not have retired Howard's jersey or CP's jersey and I would not retire Williams'. We should figure out another way to honor players who deserve recognition but don't reach the level of jersey retirement.
Muggsy is a tough one - he was the only truly unique player to ever play college basketball in America. There has never been a player that was more enjoyable to watch as a fan, or more frustrating to play against, as an opponent. He left his heart on the court every game and did it for 4 years for Wake Forest - and he left as ACC career leader in two different statistical categories. I was OK with his retirement at the time, but there was admittedly a lot of emotion involved.
Click to expand...

So you'd retire nobody since 1995?
 
deacfan123 said:
So you'd retire nobody since 1995?
Click to expand...

Not since 1997 when Duncan departed. We really have done nothing since then.

J Ho quit on two of our teams. Paul sure showed promise—but no results. You know it’s ok not to retire numbers until you actually have success.
 
The only argument against Josh Howard having his jersey hung was made by people who were offended by his Iraq war stance but too chickenshit to admit it. He had individual and team accomplishments that merited it. Finishing 1st in the ACC in the regular season in an era when the ACC was loaded, ACC POY, consensus first team AA, four year player...easy call to retire his jersey. In the early 2000's you could not tell the story of Wake Forest basketball without Josh Howard. The 2003 regular season was historic for our program, and IMO means more than anything short of a Final Four at this point.

At this point, I agree with DR that Williams' #31 shouldn't be retired yet. I'm fully aware it's an unpopular opinion, but I think we are getting caught up in recency bias. There is very little to distinguish Williams from John Collins at this point, other than the massive coaching upgrade. Unless we have an incredible postseason run to an ACC Tournament Title or a Final Four, this season will ultimately be glossed over when we look back. Sure it was a great turnaround, but ultimately finishing 5th in the ACC is not memorable and likely will be rendered a footnote as we have increased success under Forbes. We shouldn't be retiring jerseys for elevating our program from shitty to good (not great) for a single season. It should be for exceptional circumstances of individual performance combined with team performance (see JHo in 2003). Only one half of that has been IMO.

I do think we need some way to honor players short of retiring their number - a banner saying "Williams - ACC POY 2022" would be a great reminder of how great his individual season was. And Williams' season absolutely deserves to be honored.

I know it's a different sport, but we didn't retire Chris Barclay's number when he won ACC POY in football in 2005, and he had a much longer impact on our school than Williams has.
 
donaldross said:
"No one spoke up saying retiring Howard and Skip's jerseys were a bad idea."

"No one has ever complained that the Joel is too big."

Actual lines to me from high ranking Wake officials through the years. I assured them they would never be able to say that again.
Click to expand...

why in the fuck do you care about a Coach's banner in the rafters? That's pretty much just honoring them, right? Or are we never allowed to have a person named Skip Prosser coach for us again? Sorry any future Skip Prossers. That name is RETIRED.

you truly are being an asinine person in this thread


Now go on about how RayRay dominated Chris Paul and kicked our ass again... clownshoes.
 
Retiring J Ho’s Jersey was not correct. He could regular season success in 1 season.

The fact that he was a 4 year player reveals just how bad his first three seasons were. And this dream season you are referring to? What a disaster. We lost to a bad NC State team and 10 seeded Auburn.

Sure he won the ACC player of the year for his one February run. So did Chris Carrawell, Jared Dudley, Grevais Vasquez, and TJ Warren.

Y’all know who won it last year?? Moses Wright. He played for Georgia Tech. And they wouldn’t dream of retiring his number.
 
deacvision7 said:
why in the fuck do you care about a Coach's banner in the rafters? That's pretty much just honoring them, right? Or are we never allowed to have a person named Skip Prosser coach for us again? Sorry any future Skip Prossers. That name is RETIRED.

you truly are being an asinine person in this thread


Now go on about how RayRay dominated Chris Paul and kicked our ass again... clownshoes.
Click to expand...

Can we just preemptively hang Wes Miller’s banner just for the sake of efficiency?
 
To be perfectly honest I don't think Williams' jersey will be retired.
 
Man, I looked up Josh Howard's career stats so I could yell at DR, and Josh Howard's career stats are not nearly as impressive as I would've thought. He's only 9th all time in Wake history in boards and 2nd in steals and doesn't crack the top 10 in any other category.
 
Ball State Deac said:
Have we only won two ACCT games since 2007?
Click to expand...

I haven’t been tracking the Tuesday round of 15 garbage. I do think we have 3 wins in that round actually. We definitely have the worst record in that round of all ACC teams. It ain’t pretty either.

I’m telling you next Wednesdays game to even get in the Quarters is massive historically. We have been THAT bad. The “glory” days you read about on these boards were actually really bad.
 
donaldross said:
It does Tim Duncan a major disservice to have Bogues and Brown and even Griffin up there.

Bogues isn’t even the best #14 in program history. By all objective standards, Frank Johnson’s college career was much better.

Too much emotion went in to some of these Jersey retirements. Chris Paul became great after leaving us and gave a bunch of money, ok let’s retire that years later?

Skip Brown is a first class adult and really nice to folks? Ok let’s hang that up too 30 years later?? WTH
Click to expand...

Unless one has actually seen the players in question (Brown, Griffin, Johnson, Bogues) play while they were at Wake, then they should not have an opinion about their jerseys being retired because unless they saw them play, they don't know what they are talking about.
 
when donaldross makes the argument that WF has underachieved because "WF had the best player of alltime and didn't reach the ACCT championship game in the past 25 years" when he knows that WF won the ACC championship with said player 26 and 27 years ago...you tip your cap to him as the greatest troll of the sports board, and nobody else is even close
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top