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Hang it! (Alondes Williams ACC POY, 1st Team All-ACC)

Alondes Williams was ACC player of the year. That is historically significant. Donald is full of shit per usual.
 
FWIW I do agree w some of DR’s reasoning on this. In the past I think a lot of our decisions were based on emotion and timing as to what was best for the program. I don’t think you take anyone down but some structure going forward would be good and also some criteria. Not to Duke or UNC standards but specific to Wake with an oversight committee.

IMO the only ones currently hanging that are debatable would be Skip and Muggsy which were more of emotional selections. If you’re going to have those two then Frank Johnson is equally deserving. The biggest omission is Billy Packer who was part of two ACC championships and a Final Four which puts him in rare company among Wake players.

I’m also fine with Chris Paul because he’s just one of the best point guards in the history of basketball and helps with awareness and the Wake brand. As to Alondes I appreciate what’s he’s done to help right the ship but only playing one year for an NIT team doesn’t get it.

So leave what we have but let’s add some structure and guidelines moving forward.
 
Shake said:
FWIW I do agree w some of DR’s reasoning on this. In the past I think a lot of our decisions were based on emotion and timing as to what was best for the program. I don’t think you take anyone down but some structure going forward would be good and also some criteria. Not to Duke or UNC standards but specific to Wake with an oversight committee.

IMO the only ones currently hanging that are debatable would be Skip and Muggsy which were more of emotional selections. If you’re going to have those two then Frank Johnson is equally deserving. The biggest omission is Billy Packer who was part of two ACC championships and a Final Four which puts him in rare company among Wake players.

I’m also fine with Chris Paul because he’s just one of the best point guards in the history of basketball and helps with awareness and the Wake brand. As to Alondes I appreciate what’s he’s done to help right the ship but only playing one year for an NIT team doesn’t get it.

So leave what we have but let’s add some structure and guidelines moving forward.
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No one can say they experienced the team success of Billy Packer, except you know his teammates.
 
Shake said:
FWIW I do agree w some of DR’s reasoning on this. In the past I think a lot of our decisions were based on emotion and timing as to what was best for the program. I don’t think you take anyone down but some structure going forward would be good and also some criteria. Not to Duke or UNC standards but specific to Wake with an oversight committee.

IMO the only ones currently hanging that are debatable would be Skip and Muggsy which were more of emotional selections. If you’re going to have those two then Frank Johnson is equally deserving. The biggest omission is Billy Packer who was part of two ACC championships and a Final Four which puts him in rare company among Wake players.

I’m also fine with Chris Paul because he’s just one of the best point guards in the history of basketball and helps with awareness and the Wake brand. As to Alondes I appreciate what’s he’s done to help right the ship but only playing one year for an NIT team doesn’t get it.

So leave what we have but let’s add some structure and guidelines moving forward.
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Agree with most of this post but look at the WFU career scoring, assists and free throw % (Skip has no 3 point line) and you will find Skip at the very top. All- American, 2 time first team All-ACC, one time second team. Played on final 8 team as senior. He’s a no brainer.
 
Don't get me wrong, I love Skip, know him personally and was in school during that time. Guy was money and I had forgotten there was no 3 point line. In fact the elite 8 team was good enough to win a national championship but ran into the normal Wake curse in tournament play. I should have made the point that with Skip in Billy Packer absolutely should be in and Frank Johnson given strong consideration. Love Mugs but this was a push through by Staak
 
Shake said:
Don't get me wrong, I love Skip, know him personally and was in school during that time. Guy was money and I had forgotten there was no 3 point line. In fact the elite 8 team was good enough to win a national championship but ran into the normal Wake curse in tournament play. I should have made the point that with Skip in Billy Packer absolutely should be in and Frank Johnson given strong consideration. Love Mugs but this was a push through by Staak
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Actually that is probably the only elite 8 team in history to win 2 of its last 7 games
 
Deacfreak07 said:
No one can say they experienced the team success of Billy Packer, except you know his teammates.
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Not sure I understand the meaning of this statement. I was there - it was great!!
Packer was really very good and being on the same team as Chappell was a holdback for him, in a way. Two guys off the same team with no NC placed in rafters?. As sophs, Packer was the top star of the two but when seniors, it was Chappell. But as things (hangings) have transpired, Packer has a case to be there. Also, Bones McKinney certainly, and next Dave Odom too.
 
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100% agree about Bones…seriously more deserving than GDO and Skip which I’m fine with. Bones made Wake Forest relevant
 
Shake said:
100% agree about Bones…seriously more deserving than GDO and Skip which I’m fine with. Bones made Wake Forest relevant
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Yeah, I don’t get the hanging of coaches in the rafters. I get Skip because he died while Wake’s coach and that’s more in memorial/honor.
 
Yeah. Coaches get their name on the court, building, or a statue.
 
Of course, Coaches (like Staak) and ADs (like Wellman) want to invent success for their time there by retiring jerseys or any other form of marketing (the Regional Finalist emphasis). That’s why the last person in charge of hanging banners ought be current administrators whose income depends on faking success. The stewards ought be in charge of such.

At Wake, the tactics actually worked for those who made a living off our fake successs. Our bozo alums now believe we actually achieved things during the Chris Paul era for instance. They think Prosser was successful too. They think the 1984 team actually had more than 2 March wins. The banners perpetuate the charade.

For those young folks reading this watch how quickly this happens. You will soon hear folks reminiscing about “that year we rocked it with Alondes. The Joel was jammed and what a great season.” Just watch…you are about to experience this first hand.

This mentality amongst Wake alums has only entrenched our losing ways. They think the Joel is “fine”. They think the last 25 years have been “great.” We don’t need to change because “hey look at Skip…he won.” Ignoring the reality that as likable as Skip was, we absolutely did not win.
 
donaldross said:
Of course, Coaches (like Staak) and ADs (like Wellman) want to invent success for their time there by retiring jerseys or any other form of marketing (the Regional Finalist emphasis). That’s why the last person in charge of hanging banners ought be current administrators whose income depends on faking success. The stewards ought be in charge of such.

At Wake, the tactics actually worked for those who made a living off our fake successs. Our bozo alums now believe we actually achieved things during the Chris Paul era for instance. They think Prosser was successful too. They think the 1984 team actually had more than 2 March wins. The banners perpetuate the charade.

For those young folks reading this watch how quickly this happens. You will soon hear folks reminiscing about “that year we rocked it with Alondes. The Joel was jammed and what a great season.” Just watch…you are about to experience this first hand.

This mentality amongst Wake alums has only entrenched our losing ways. They think the Joel is “fine”. They think the last 25 years have been “great.” We don’t need to change because “hey look at Skip…he won.” Ignoring the reality that as likable as Skip was, we absolutely did not win.
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I must have imagined us winning the regular season ACC in 2003 and the other three years he finished second or third in a stacked conference. Do I wish we won in the postseason? Yes. But that doesn’t mean we didn’t win or take away from the memories of those times. We were frequently ranked under Skip, including a number one ranking. Just because you’re miserable, don’t ruin those memories for the rest of us.

Adding that I don’t know anyone who thinks the last 25 years of Wake basketball have been great, but being a student in the late 90s- mid 2000s was pretty great basketball wise. There were not many schools better than Wake. We hosted some of the best teams in the country. We won consistently and we had a lot of future NBA players.
 
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donaldross said:
This mentality amongst Wake alums has only entrenched our losing ways. They think the Joel is “fine”. They think the last 25 years have been “great.” We don’t need to change because “hey look at Skip…he won.” Ignoring the reality that as likable as Skip was, we absolutely did not win.
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Didn't you camp out outside the athletic offices to convince Prosser to stay at Wake when he was being recruited for the Pittsburgh job?
 
Rafi said:
Didn't you camp out outside the athletic offices to convince Prosser to stay at Wake when he was being recruited for the Pittsburgh job?
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No. But I certainly was glad he stayed at the time. That doesn’t change what we did under Skip—the numbers just ain’t pretty.

The reality for Prosser and Forbes is that we didn’t give them the home court to bring in the players to get over the hump and actually achieve things. The fault is ours.
 
donaldross said:
No. But I certainly was glad he stayed at the time. That doesn’t change what we did under Skip—the numbers just ain’t pretty.

The reality for Prosser and Forbes is that we didn’t give them the home court to bring in the players to get over the hump and actually achieve things. The fault is ours.
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Let's start gathering Board commitments for a new stadium/improvements to the Joel. Lay out the specifications (or demands) and get commitments from posters who vow to donate the funds immediately upon announcement that the project is going to be undertaken. I would be down for $5,000 or so.
 
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