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Rafi said:
I get this, and I think it's what our administration is going for. However, I think it may not be correct. I think it could lead to fewer gifts that are very large - in the tens of millions range. If it is less unique, there may be fewer large gifts. If the students are of a lower caliber, there may be less chance that one becomes a multi-millionaire and donates large amounts to Wake.
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I think you are more likely to get better returns on more chunks of multi-generational wealth than the occasional self made millionaire.

I’m sure the numbers were crunched on these kind of decisions in the middle of a huge capital campaign.

I’m not saying I love the thinking because of what it means for the identity of the institution, but I’m fairly confident it’s a profitable strategy.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I think you are more likely to get better returns on more chunks of multi-generational wealth than the occasional self made millionaire.

I’m sure the numbers were crunched on these kind of decisions in the middle of a huge capital campaign.

I’m not saying I love the thinking because of what it means for the identity of the institution, but I’m fairly confident it’s a profitable strategy.
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No doubt the numbers were crunched. But if the premises on which the numbers were based were flawed, then it doesn't matter that they were crunched.
 
Rafi said:
No doubt the numbers were crunched. But if the premises on which the numbers were based were flawed, then it doesn't matter that they were crunched.
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I think UA is bringing in more donations since the shift, so...
 
Wake Forest used to be a good place for smart kids that couldn't afford Duke

now, by design, it's the place for the rich kids that can't get into Duke
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I think UA is bringing in more donations since the shift, so...
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What do you mean by UA? University Advancement? Something else? Wake is in the middle of a capital campaign, which will increase donations.

Also, I have little doubt that in the short run the approach may increase donations, but in the long run I think it could lead to a weaker school, which will decrease donations, grants, and other financial options.
 
A lot of it comes from the lack of endowment compared to other similar suited universities. Wake, from my understanding, is doing a lot to bring in more students that don't normally have the means to afford Wake (which is fantastic), but because of the lack of a large endowment, has to offset that by courting the full-payment students as well. The overall effect is pushing the economic diversity of Wakes students to the two extremes, while making it an unattractive/economically prohibitive option for the middle class.
 
You know what would help increase the diversity of our applicants and our student body? A competent basketball coach and success on the hardwood.
 
RacerDeac said:
You know what would help increase the diversity of our applicants and our student body? A competent basketball coach and success on the hardwood.
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Absolutely and it cuts both ways....a more economically diverse student body prob helps student attendance at football and basketball games. These kids prob stay at least until half time instead of showing up to tailgate football games in full tuxes then head to brother Brock's polo match before kickoff
 
IamThunderbolt said:
A lot of it comes from the lack of endowment compared to other similar suited universities. Wake, from my understanding, is doing a lot to bring in more students that don't normally have the means to afford Wake (which is fantastic), but because of the lack of a large endowment, has to offset that by courting the full-payment students as well. The overall effect is pushing the economic diversity of Wakes students to the two extremes, while making it an unattractive/economically prohibitive option for the middle class.
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There are economic incentives to enroll 2 types of students - those who can pay full tuition, and those who are at the top end of the eligibility for Pell Grants. The poorest students and the middle class are just burdens on the bottom line.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
There are economic incentives to enroll 2 types of students - those who can pay full tuition, and those who are at the top end of the eligibility for Pell Grants. The poorest students and the middle class are just burdens on the bottom line.
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And families that bring in $150K to $350K with multiple kids in college are probably SOL unless they've saved a lot or they want to pay loans.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
A lot of it comes from the lack of endowment compared to other similar suited universities. Wake, from my understanding, is doing a lot to bring in more students that don't normally have the means to afford Wake (which is fantastic), but because of the lack of a large endowment, has to offset that by courting the full-payment students as well. The overall effect is pushing the economic diversity of Wakes students to the two extremes, while making it an unattractive/economically prohibitive option for the middle class.
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Our endowment is really underfunded. It took a huge hit in 08 IIRC.
 
BiffTannen said:
And families that bring in $150K to $350K with multiple kids in college are probably SOL unless they've saved a lot or they want to pay loans.
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UNC in-state tuition is $9,018 this year - is wake worth an additional $46,000 per year ?

$200,000 difference in tuition over 4 years ?
 
IamThunderbolt said:
A lot of it comes from the lack of endowment compared to other similar suited universities. Wake, from my understanding, is doing a lot to bring in more students that don't normally have the means to afford Wake (which is fantastic), but because of the lack of a large endowment, has to offset that by courting the full-payment students as well. The overall effect is pushing the economic diversity of Wakes students to the two extremes, while making it an unattractive/economically prohibitive option for the middle class.
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It's called the barbell effect, where schools bring in the uber rich and the smart poor; the former subsidizing the latter.

Reading that Wake was offering a generous transition for the church/school from the property tells me they don't have any immediate plans for it - they're just buying up everything close to campus when it comes available.
 
Rafi said:
To follow-up a little on this:

- Wash U started chasing the rich kids a decade ago, and their US News ranking has been steadily dropping (from ~ 10 to ~20).
- Wake had 3 Rhodes Scholars in the 80s, 4 in the 90s, 4 in the 00s, and only 1 in the 10s (last one was 2012).
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This deserves a closer look. It would be very interesting to look at these trends nationwide.

The No SAT policy may play a role too. I always suspected that it was less about addressing inequity and more about providing a safe landing spot for rich kids who can’t get in elsewhere.

thatguy2016 said:
Wake Forest used to be a good place for smart kids that couldn't afford Duke

now, by design, it's the place for the rich kids that can't get into Duke
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Sad and well said.

IamThunderbolt said:
A lot of it comes from the lack of endowment compared to other similar suited universities. Wake, from my understanding, is doing a lot to bring in more students that don't normally have the means to afford Wake (which is fantastic), but because of the lack of a large endowment, has to offset that by courting the full-payment students as well. The overall effect is pushing the economic diversity of Wakes students to the two extremes, while making it an unattractive/economically prohibitive option for the middle class.
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The endowment was poorly managed. There were some articles about how they made some poor business decisions before the Great Recession. Basically the endowment was the 00s version of hoops.
 
And twenty years ago, I heard the endowment suffered in the dot com bubble bursting. If true, holy crap, who is managing our endowment? We do have a business school, don't we? This has got to be the one of the biggest scandals/PR hits ever. "Please come to Wake a full freight because we squandered our money. Here, you too, will learn to invest poorly."
 
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