Job leads/advice for Junior Programmer - NC or SC

[Jroc25]

I just finished this code school in Durham: http://theironyard.com/academy/

I studied Rails Engineering. Incidentally, the current Rails instructor in Durham is Mason Mathews, also a Wake grad ('02). His wife went to Wake too.

As of 8 months ago, I am 100% new to web development. I'm pretty comfortable with Ruby/Ruby on Rails at this point. I've been gradually improving my JavaScript, Java, Python, PHP, CSS, jQuery, and AngularJS. Back-end development interests me more (experienced with MySQL), but I'm really looking for anything Junior.

I'm in Durham now but will relocate anywhere in NC or SC. My background is finance-based. Statistical programming with R naturally interest me.

Any advice on what languages or frameworks I should be learning now?

Are you familiar with code schools? Do you think they're legit?

Any advice or job leads (!!) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Liquid Karma]

I just finished this code school in Durham: http://theironyard.com/academy/

I studied Rails Engineering. Incidentally, the current Rails instructor in Durham is Mason Mathews, also a Wake grad ('02). His wife went to Wake too.

As of 8 months ago, I am 100% new to web development. I'm pretty comfortable with Ruby/Ruby on Rails at this point. I've been gradually improving my JavaScript, Java, Python, PHP, CSS, jQuery, and AngularJS. Back-end development interests me more (experienced with MySQL), but I'm really looking for anything Junior.

I'm in Durham now but will relocate anywhere in NC or SC. My background is finance-based. Statistical programming with R naturally interest me.

Any advice on what languages or frameworks I should be learning now?

Are you familiar with code schools? Do you think they're legit?

Any advice or job leads (!!) would be greatly appreciated.

You'll probably get lots of different answers on this, but in my experience I've found the developers who come in with strong SQL skills tend to do better at getting up to speed. Different companies have different coding practices across various languages and architectures, but database skills tend to be universal.

As far as your coding skills go, you should work on getting some .Net experience in either vb or c#.

One thing I've always enjoyed about development is that the skills needed are constantly evolving. There is always something new that can usually be mastered quickly to enhance your usefulness to companies.

 

[94Deac]

Man, I wish you luck but your sig line is going to tank anyone here taking you seriously.

 

[DCDeac]

Man, I wish you luck but your sig line is going to tank anyone here taking you seriously.

No kidding, I just assumed that was a parody account.

LK and I were only a couple years ahead of Mason, interesting to hear he's teaching Rails and stayed local.

 

[Jroc25]

No kidding, I just assumed that was a parody account.

LK and I were only a couple years ahead of Mason, interesting to hear he's teaching Rails and stayed local.

Yeah, Mason was hugely successful with his own company. He really wanted to teach though.

Sig is updated to post-[NR] era.

 

[RacerDeac]

As far as your coding skills go, you should work on getting some .Net experience in either vb or c#.

It also depends on where you want to work. Small web developer vs large corporation. Ruby, Python, PHP and the like are all cooler/newer, open source, etc, but aren't often in use in the core applications within larger corporations. There, like LK suggested, you'll be more solidly qualified with SQL, .NET, VB...basically anything MS. Very little of the web or database development done in a larger company actually sees the outside world. It's bland, it's ugly, it's big/bloated, and it has to integrate well with all of the rest of the MS software powering everything else around the company.

 

[JamesSokolove]

Congrats on finishing up at the Iron Yard. Really like the energy coming out of there.

 

[DCDeac]

I thought Iron Yard would help place you in a position based on what you studied?

Regardless, since you're looking for a development position without a computer science degree, you're basically up against recent grads with 4 years of education against your last few months. Don't get me wrong, Iron Yard is supposed to be a great skills builder, but Ruby on Rails is a pretty specific skill. I'd recommend fleshing out some more core stuff, particularly java. Without getting into a big Ruby versus Java thing, I will say that Rails would be a little better suited for living out west, while if you're on the east coast there are a lot more opportunities with the established big boys (IBM, Accenture, SAIC, CSC, etc) in the older, more enterprise-friendly technologies. Tack on, as LK said, a solid understanding of SQL and preferably Oracle/MySQL/MSSQL database knowledge (mainly Oracle). Finally I'd probably go for an Agile Scrum Developer certification if you had some time while job hunting. Not that the certification really gets you that far, but it does show you're legitimately interested in current dev trends and best practices.

Yes, you could dive into the evil Windows world of C# and .NET and Sharepoint... But I'd try not to get stuck there. Lots of competition and relatively low ceilings. Easier to get in but harder to make the jump to good money, plus PITA certifications suddenly carry far more weight because it's hard to differentiate the talent pool.

It'll probably still be a matter of finding a friend or a contact that can open a door for you. I only know DC well, so down in NC it may be different, but here I'd be shooting to get into a contract/project with a big name company where you can take advantage of benefits like paid training. I'd settle for basement pay if need be - what you need is real world experience. I mean if you were out of work I'd consider volunteering on the side if it meant hands-on computer time for a client. I ended up building a website for the Guatemalan Embassy for pennies on the dollar here when I started my job search, and had no idea I'd be walking people through it during interviews.

Once you get the job thing figured out, I'd consider getting an MBA and pairing it with an IT degree if you're serious about staying in technology. Around here, Maryland has an affordable dual degree MBA and IT maters that only tacks one year onto the basic MBA time. I very much regret not doing that. If I didn't have a BS in Comp Sci I'd regret it even more.

 

[buckets]

Or just get a degree in finance and you never have to do math harder than arithmetic

 

[AnonymousDeac]

Are the NC/SC states a dealbreaker? How about Virginia? I'm at a financial services company that is strongly moving towards becoming a tech company. Hiring more developers than analysts for the first time in our history. Very strong Tech Development Program if you're interested.

My advice to all entry-level candidates is to join the largest company possible. Very rarely do people just out of school have any idea what they actually want to do or what kind of career they want. If you join a small company, you'll get stuck in one role with little opportunity to move around. Join a big company and once you're in, it's a lot easier to move roles within the company. Especially recommend a development program that encourages you trying multiple roles early on your career.

 

[RacerDeac]

My advice to all entry-level candidates is to join the largest company possible. Very rarely do people just out of school have any idea what they actually want to do or what kind of career they want. If you join a small company, you'll get stuck in one role with little opportunity to move around. Join a big company and once you're in, it's a lot easier to move roles within the company. Especially recommend a development program that encourages you trying multiple roles early on your career.

I've found just the opposite. I was exposed to far more and allowed to try my hand at far more, within a small company. My title/role mattered very little. It was a necessity that everyone wear 3-4 hats within a small organization. If there was a need for something, you learned it and did it, rather than hiring someone to do it. If you did it well, that became your job until the next new thing came along to learn/do. I guess it depends on what you consider small though. I could see that being more true at a medium sized firm, where they have one person for every job, but only one person, so it requires someone leaving, getting fired, or getting promoted for their to be anywhere else for you to go internally.

 

[buckets]

What kinda hats are we talking here? Sweet ass hats like fedoras and von dutch trucker hats?

 

[Liquid Karma]

You really want to make some bank in the software/IT world in coming years? Become an expert in security. The Sony and Anthem Blue Cross hacks are just the latest incidents, but they are bringing serious heat on any company that deals with sensitive data (our company databases have over 20M unique SSN's in them). Companies are desperate for expertise in this area, and will be throwing money at it for the rest of time.

I echo everything Racer and DC have posted. You're getting 3 fairly distinct viewpoints here. I've been working for a large, damn near monolithic, software company for almost 14 years and we tend to be stuck on the legacy .net architectures and are not on the cutting edge of web development but we are present at pretty much any large financial institution you can name, and we absolutely stay cutting edge when it comes to DB and security stuff. Racer has been on the small business side where agile web development and cutting edge methods are prized. DC, I believe, has spent considerable time on the contract side where the requirements change with each job. I don't believe he's been bound to a single development paradigm for more than a couple years at a time.

And like DC, I regret not jumping into some sort of business/comp sci joint program about a decade ago.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Are the NC/SC states a dealbreaker? How about Virginia? I'm at a financial services company that is strongly moving towards becoming a tech company. Hiring more developers than analysts for the first time in our history. Very strong Tech Development Program if you're interested.

My advice to all entry-level candidates is to join the largest company possible. Very rarely do people just out of school have any idea what they actually want to do or what kind of career they want. If you join a small company, you'll get stuck in one role with little opportunity to move around. Join a big company and once you're in, it's a lot easier to move roles within the company. Especially recommend a development program that encourages you trying multiple roles early on your career.

Depends on the company. The stratification of roles in software development tends to fall into 2 roles: developer and project manager. You do one or the other, and while their may be different levels of developer (junior vs senior, etc), you're still just another part of a team and unless the manager above you leaves or gets promoted, you generally won't see much upward mobility. There is a TON of turnover among newer programmers at a lot of companies for this very reason. They see the lack of mobility and think they can find it elsewhere. Couple that with the fact that you can hire 3 developers in India for what it costs for one junior programmer (60k starting for example) here in the US, and that's just one more barrier to upward mobility.

Get in with a small company and develop a skill set beyond just being a code monkey. Find your way into project management and you'll move up quicker.

 

[buckets]

Jokes aside, there is smart money being invested into IT security like crazy right now

 

[Liquid Karma]

Also, you could also try freelance work just to pick up a few jobs here and there. On places like eLance, you'll find the market flooded with cheap developers from India and China, but you'll also find that there are many businesses who put out RFP's who prefer a US based developer. You can hone your skills there for awhile and build a small portfolio of work.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Jokes aside, there is smart money being invested into IT security like crazy right now

I just sat in on a 2 hour presentation of our company roadmap for IT security for the next 2 years. We are throwing huge resources into it and the position, wisely I might ad, is not IF we will be attacked, but WHEN and how we will manage that when it happens. Sony had 120 TERABYTES of data flow out the door before they realized they were being hacked. Companies are working on mitigating that.

 

[RacerDeac]

Racer has been on the small business side where agile web development and cutting edge methods are prized.

In the last 10 years, I've worked for a start-up, where we built everything using open source options and made weekly, sometimes daily, PROD pushes (we didn't even know to call it Agile...too busy to bother with corp speak), I've worked for myself building out CRM's, websites, and performing general IT for small businesses, I've consulted for fortune 50 types, and I currently work a blended technical/business role for Wells Fargo. I've seen a pretty good span of the industry. I definitely agree with LK's advice to expand your skillset beyond code monkey over time. My technical expertise makes me far more valuable on the business side than it does on the technical side in a big company. I was forced to become competent at both at a small company because, well, there was no one else. I managed servers, wrote SQL, created requirements, managed BETA groups, wrote design, chipped in on the help desk and gave demos and presentations to potential clients and investors. It's hard to get that range of experience in a big company IMO.

Coders are a dime a dozen comparatively, but people who can speak the language of technical teams, call their bluffs when needed and write a bit of SQL along the way, but who can also create and manage a budget, lead a team/project, and stand comfortably to present in a room of executives is much harder to find. Get your foot in the door with your technical skills, but I'd recommend focusing further learning on expanding your other skill sets.

Also, the advice on security is definitely worthwhile. Similarly, jobs that deal with fed regulation (especially in banking) seem to be growing a lot. There's some overlap there with security in some cases. Even at the startup I worked at, even though we had software demonstrated to save the company millions on each real estate development project, our biggest hurdle in the sell was often getting the corporate infrastructure types of Fortune 50 companies comfortable with the security of their data on our off-site servers.

 

[DCDeac]

I think I can clarify my take based on the above (very good) advice.

What Racer describes is similar to my start. Moved to London and worked at a small dot-com startup. I coded 30% of our site, managed our servers/systems, ran the outsourced dev team in India, ran the tech side of presentations for investors, managed our budget, etc... Loved every second of it and it even paid pretty well for being straight out of Wake.

But without a Comp Sci degree and a few months experience coding for a .com in Atlanta, I would have had exactly zero chance getting that or any similar position.

So while I completely agree the most awesome result would be to find a great small company that will reward you, let you do tons of stuff, and even choose security as a focus... I don't see that as your most likely road. The big guys are the ones who have seats that need filling regardless in many cases of how competent the employee is in that seat, so it's much easier for them to take a flyer on an inexperienced coder as long as a colleague can vouch for you.

This assumes you're going for a hard skill position. There are easier ways into IT Management. My guess is Racer and LK would agree with the notion that while there are a million coders out there and there are a million IT managers out there, the best jobs and the highest ceilings are for people who combine hard skills with leadership/decision making, especially if you add being a normal human that can hold normal conversations.

 

[SCDeac13]

SQL and VBA is very valuable in the business world. Primarily SQL if want to do any kind of data analytics. Having knowledge and experience with those is an easy way to get your foot in the door. Most companies seem to have a pretty large gap between business and tech. If you can bridge that gap and understand both sides, you are golden.

While not heavy in programming, my company (top 15 CPA firm) hires people from several different backgrounds for our consulting practice. Most of our projects center around regulatory work, finance transformation, IT security, and anti money laundering at Fortune 500 companies, among other areas. Shoot me a PM if you are interested and I can give you more info.