Official Syracuse - Wake game thread (Foot of snow)

[Buttermaker]

Yeah. Van Horn over McClinton is a head scratcher. McClinton gives you offensive rebounding (14 on the season) and fouls. He's a better defender than Van Horn too. Kills me when coaches play for defense instead of offensive rebounding in those situations (see Timmy in Game 6 vs. Heat).

That was strange. Especially since McC has been pretty effective in his role the past several games. I wonder if he got himself in the dog house.

 

[1976Deac]

Childress played a hell of a game. I'm not saying he played a flawless game, but good things happened when he was in the game. We were more effective on offense against the zone when he and Moore were in the game than we were when Collins was in the game and Childress wasn't.

 

[Buttermaker]

And his on ball defense is fantastic

I disagreed with someone on another thread that Chill is our best on the ball defender. I have changed my thinking and agree. He had 3 steals last night and several I recall v. Smith and State. I still don't think he has great lateral movement, not as a good as Crawford, but he is a better on the ball defender than Crawford right now and certainly Wilbekin. He still scares you with some of his drives and shots, but at least he is starting to hit some outside shots.

 

[HowardDeanSux]

So many turnovers, awful. If we have a desire to make the NCAAT these are games we've got to have. A lot of blame to go around for the sloppy play, but is there a reason JC and Moore never seem to be on the floor at the same time?

DM 11th Commandment, "Thou shalt not ever allow a player to receive 5 fouls in any game no matter the circumstances"

 

[HowardDeanSux]

I disagreed with someone on another thread that Chill is our best on the ball defender. I have changed my thinking and agree. He had 3 steals last night and several I recall v. Smith and State. I still don't think he has great lateral movement, not as a good as Crawford, but he is a better on the ball defender than Crawford right now and certainly Wilbekin. He still scares you with some of his drives and shots, but at least he is starting to hit some outside shots.

Frustrating part was he failed to convert all 3 for any points on break aways. Otherwise, your point is well taken.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Last night really pissed me off more than most losses the last 7 years. We had a great opportunity to win 2 straight road games against a team I think we're better than, controlled most of the game (though very tight throughout) and we found a way to screw it up. I know some will probably say, well we just got our first road ACC win in 25 attempts Saturday and at least we had a chance to win last night, but damn I'm tired of that thinking. I watched that game last night and I was hard pressed to say that I'd trade any of our prominent players for anybody on Cuse's team. Maybe the guy they had that had transferred from Kansas to Nebraska to Cuse, yeah I'd trade Arians for him, but other than that I didn't see anybody. I guess the biggest difference was Cuse has a HOF coach, although an ass, on their bench and we've got a coach who I think is improving, but still has a ways to go.

This team has some talent and are really close to being 3 games or so better than the record says, it's just frustrating and after 7 years my patience is wearing thin, even though I do think things are trending in the right direction.

 

[DeacWatcher]

And the defensive weakness is only exacerbated when we seemingly give up half a dozen soft, stupid and-ones per game. We had two in the final minutes last night that really came back to bite us

Defense has been the problem going all the way back to Odom. We have to find a way to generate some stops and cause turnovers, not wait for them to somehow happen. However the team is young and fun to watch and as someone else said, Manning had a good offensive game plan.

This was the first time in a very long time where a Deacs game was watched by several friends albeit over text and a lot of favorable comments were issued. We did bitch about the refs but nothing can ever be done here.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

I watched that game last night and I was hard pressed to say that I'd trade any of our prominent players for anybody on Cuse's team. Maybe the guy they had that had transferred from Kansas to Nebraska to Cuse, yeah I'd trade Arians for him, but other than that I didn't see anybody.

Tyler Lydon is averaging 14 and 8 on 50% shooting, 44% from 3, 82% on FT's, and is ranked #23 on Draft Express's top prospects. I think I'd take him over one or two of our players

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Defense has been the problem going all the way back to Odom. We have to find a way to generate some stops and cause turnovers, not wait for them to somehow happen. However the team is young and fun to watch and as someone else said, Manning had a good offensive game plan.

This was the first time in a very long time where a Deacs game was watched by several friends albeit over text and a lot of favorable comments were issued. We did bitch about the refs but nothing can ever be done here.

I would say most of Odom's team were pretty good defensively, offensive was usually more of a challenge. I remember when Odom was here, we had some impressive streaks of holding teams to under 50 percent shooting and stuff.

 

[Ayo]

I'd take Lydon over anyone not named Collins. He's a very good player.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Tyler Lydon is averaging 14 and 8 on 50% shooting, 44% from 3, 82% on FT's, and is ranked #23 on Draft Express's top prospects. I think I'd take him over one or two of our players

I'm talking about just watching the game last night, until Lydon made those couple 3's late, he didn't really jump out at me or anything. We've seen Dinos make 3's like that before. Again, I'm not talking about stats or other games, honestly until last night I haven't seen Cuse play that much this year. I'm just talking about observing the game last night. I guess what I'm saying is, I really didn't feel they had us majorly outmatched anywhere on the court and I thought with Collins we had the biggest advantage on the court.

 

[raldeac]

Agree with many, we seemed to just pass the ball around outside against the zone. When we made some degree of penetration, especially M Wilbekin, he would back it back out. Tho' he played a pretty good game. The pass into the big men has to be quick when he flashes open, as was said. In my mind we don't do a high fake and use the bound pass in very often or effectively. 'Cuse was very good on their fast breaks and drives to pass off to a trailing guy effectively. Little 'Chill needs to gain more experience and learn in that mode. Two plays especially, if he had done that would have been two baskets rather than 0. ( to BC trailing fast break and Collins under basket on baseline drive). Little things add up in a tight game.

 

[tigerswood]

Last night really pissed me off more than most losses the last 7 years. We had a great opportunity to win 2 straight road games against a team I think we're better than, controlled most of the game (though very tight throughout) and we found a way to screw it up. I know some will probably say, well we just got our first road ACC win in 25 attempts Saturday and at least we had a chance to win last night, but damn I'm tired of that thinking. I watched that game last night and I was hard pressed to say that I'd trade any of our prominent players for anybody on Cuse's team. Maybe the guy they had that had transferred from Kansas to Nebraska to Cuse, yeah I'd trade Arians for him, but other than that I didn't see anybody. I guess the biggest difference was Cuse has a HOF coach, although an ass, on their bench and we've got a coach who I think is improving, but still has a ways to go.

This team has some talent and are really close to being 3 games or so better than the record says, it's just frustrating and after 7 years my patience is wearing thin, even though I do think things are trending in the right direction.

You wouldn't trade Dinos for Lydon? I'll have what you're smoking then.

 

[CantStandYa]

Last night really pissed me off more than most losses the last 7 years. We had a great opportunity to win 2 straight road games against a team I think we're better than, controlled most of the game (though very tight throughout) and we found a way to screw it up. I know some will probably say, well we just got our first road ACC win in 25 attempts Saturday and at least we had a chance to win last night, but damn I'm tired of that thinking. I watched that game last night and I was hard pressed to say that I'd trade any of our prominent players for anybody on Cuse's team. Maybe the guy they had that had transferred from Kansas to Nebraska to Cuse, yeah I'd trade Arians for him, but other than that I didn't see anybody. I guess the biggest difference was Cuse has a HOF coach, although an ass, on their bench and we've got a coach who I think is improving, but still has a ways to go.

This team has some talent and are really close to being 3 games or so better than the record says, it's just frustrating and after 7 years my patience is wearing thin, even though I do think things are trending in the right direction.

Last night's game was emblematic of us as an NIT team this year, rather than an NCAA team. We're just not there yet. Doesn't mean we haven't improved or aren't headed in the right direction, but the talk of the NCAAT after the Miami/State wins - regardless of bracketology projections - was premature. This is still a rebuilding project; a team that is still learning how to win on the road.

That said, the fact that we didn't fold after Cuse made their inevitable run, reversing an 8-point Wake lead into a 5-point deficit, means we've learned some lessons from the FSU/Clemson disasters. Was last night's game frustrating to watch? Absolutely. We had a chance to win, but Syracuse locked down on defense late in the second half and we seemingly had zero strategy to overcome it. Hail mary shots by Wilbekin and Crawford kept us in it, along with our FT shooting (another improvement over previous years), but this is ultimately a missed opportunity for a young team.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

You wouldn't trade Dinos for Lydon? I'll have what you're smoking then.

Do I need to draw you a picture? I'm talking about last night, if I'd been watching Cuse play this year and seen Lydon's stats, yeah I'm sure I would. I'm simply saying, I didn't see anywhere last night on the court I thought was were significantly outmatched, but I thought Collins had them significantly outmatched. I'm sure Lydon is the second coming of Larry Bird, but honestly until watching last night, I wouldn't have known him if I had passed him on the street, so what I'm saying is totally based off last night. The guy for Cuse that hurt us the most last night was the transfer, so that is why I mentioned him.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Last night's game was emblematic of us as an NIT team this year, rather than an NCAA team. We're just not there yet. Doesn't mean we haven't improved or aren't headed in the right direction, but the talk of the NCAAT after the Miami/State wins - regardless of bracketology projections - was premature. This is still a rebuilding project; a team that is still learning how to win on the road.

That said, the fact that we didn't fold after Cuse made their inevitable run, reversing an 8-point Wake lead into a 5-point deficit, means we've learned some lessons from the FSU/Clemson disasters. Was last night's game frustrating to watch? Absolutely. We had a chance to win, but Syracuse locked down on defense late in the second half and we seemingly had zero strategy to overcome it. Hail mary shots by Wilbekin and Crawford kept us in it, along with our FT shooting (another improvement over previous years), but this is ultimately a missed opportunity for a young team.

Well said, agreed.

 

[daaberry]

Last night's game was emblematic of us as an NIT team this year, rather than an NCAA team. We're just not there yet. Doesn't mean we haven't improved or aren't headed in the right direction, but the talk of the NCAAT after the Miami/State wins - regardless of bracketology projections - was premature. This is still a rebuilding project; a team that is still learning how to win on the road.

That said, the fact that we didn't fold after Cuse made their inevitable run, reversing an 8-point Wake lead into a 5-point deficit, means we've learned some lessons from the FSU/Clemson disasters. Was last night's game frustrating to watch? Absolutely. We had a chance to win, but Syracuse locked down on defense late in the second half and we seemingly had zero strategy to overcome it. Hail mary shots by Wilbekin and Crawford kept us in it, along with our FT shooting (another improvement over previous years), but this is ultimately a missed opportunity for a young team.

I still think if they manage to go 4-1 at home & win @ BC they have a great shot at getting in w/ 8-10 record.

 

[RJKarl]

I'm going top put a directly as I can. if you don't get why Van Horn was put in the game, you shouldn't be posting about basketball. It's that simple.

Anyone with a junior high school understanding of the game would have seen he was put in, not to play D, not for offense, he was put in for one reason and one reason only, to commit a foul. That's it. We had multiple guys with three or four fouls, had to foul and didn't want to lose a player or have a player get a fourth foul in case we went into OT.

It's unfathomable that so many who allege they know something about basketball don't get this most basic move.

 

[daaberry]

I'm going top put a directly as I can. if you don't get why Van Horn was put in the game, you shouldn't be posting about basketball. It's that simple.

Anyone with a junior high school understanding of the game would have seen he was put in, not to play D, not for offense, he was put in for one reason and one reason only, to commit a foul. That's it. We had multiple guys with three or four fouls, had to foul and didn't want to lose a player or have a player get a fourth foul in case we went into OT.

It's unfathomable that so many who allege they know something about basketball don't get this most basic move.

It is easy to understand, but at the same time it came across as Coach assumed there was no way Dinos was going to miss a FT. In hindsight, I am sure if you told Manning that he is not going to make the 2nd free throw he might have chosen a different player to be standing there w/ potential at a game saving offensive rebound.

 

[daaberry]

For all the people w/ $ on Wake +4, that last 7 seconds couldn't have gone any worse. You figure at worst we miss a shot & the time runs out w/ a 4 point loss. Instead we turn it over & let the time run out, but still decide to foul with .6 seconds left down 4. That was very bad beat.