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Republicans for POTUS, 2016 Edition

Opposition to building a wall on the border in no way equates to someone being against securing a border. That's like saying "you don't like pizza, why are you against feeding yourself?" You can still eat other food. You can secure a border in other ways than building a wall.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I mean we are bordered on four sides in the United States. Two are by water, two are by land. They also make airplanes.

I don't know the numbers, but I would guess most people here illegally are actually on expired work visas, not just running past guards at the border and staying here.
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regardless why do liberals think its so inhumane or silly to secure the borders and enforce the immigration rules?
 
George Borjas has an entertaining blog related to immigration and economics. If you don't know who he is:
I am a Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School.
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http://gborjas.org/
Anyway, this is from his most recent post
I testified this morning before the Senate Subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest. It’s something I haven’t done in years, but I have to admit that it was fun.
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instead of talking about an H-1B program that lets in 65,000 high-tech workers (workers that most people attending those hearings have little in common with), we should instead think about an A-1B program that lets in 65,000 attorneys. These attorneys would have passed some sort of certification exam prepared by the American Bar Association. The test could be very, very hard, but I bet that Kaplan-like test centers would magically spring up all over the world to teach the requisite skills to would-be lawyers and that many potential lawyers would quickly join the queue.

What do you think would happen to the labor market for attorneys in the US? One doesn’t need professional training in economics to realize that attorneys would face an even harder time getting jobs. And that law firms and potential consumers would benefit because we could all hire legal services at much cheaper rates. Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to hire a tax attorney to do our taxes next month at cut-rate prices?
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In fact, why not attach the proposal to create an A-1B program every time someone introduces legislation to increase the H-1B cap? I would love to hear the reactions from the usual suspects–e.g., the American Immigration Lawyers Association–to the A-1B program. Would it shock anyone if this was the first “more immigrants, please” proposal that they would reject outright? Maybe then we could have a real debate about the costs and benefits of the H-1B program.
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Wakeforest22890 said:
Opposition to building a wall on the border in no way equates to someone being against securing a border. That's like saying "you don't like pizza, why are you against feeding yourself?" You can still eat other food. You can secure a border in other ways than building a wall.
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what are you suggestions ? would you be for enforcing the immigration laws and when one comes across the border deporting them straight back?
 
Deacs89 said:
what are you suggestions ? would you be for enforcing the immigration laws and when one comes across the border deporting them straight back?
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My suggestions are to enforce the laws we have on the books, find a realistic option to allow the people here currently to become legal citizens (because it's not practical in my opinion to "round 'em up" to deport them and to the extent that it is practical it's likely not fiscally responsible to do so), and ramp up the punishment for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
 
Deacs89 said:
regardless why do liberals think its so inhumane or silly to secure the borders and enforce the immigration rules?
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This is a pretty sweeping straw man (I know because I'm good at generating straw man attacks) argument.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I do think the United States needs a secure border. I don't think anybody on here is advocating for people to just "come on in" no matter what.

It's how we are going to legislate and make that happen that is in question, all while maintaining our best humanitarian efforts to help those in need.
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We currently have over 42 million legal and illegal immigrants in the US. Do you have a number in mind when it comes to how many more you'd like to see be allowed to immigrate- will it ever be enough? For those that are here illegally, you think they should be given amnesty and allowed to stay?
 
Deacs89 said:
regardless why do liberals think its so inhumane or silly to secure the borders and enforce the immigration rules?
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I don't think anyone on here today has said either of these. You don't even need anyone here to respond at this point, you're making an argument then ignoring what other people actually say in response to you, then providing another argument against your first argument so you can keep arguing even though nobody you're actually talking to made the argument you keep responding to.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
My suggestions are to enforce the laws we have on the books, find a realistic option to allow the people here currently to become legal citizens (because it's not practical in my opinion to "round 'em up" to deport them and to the extent that it is practical it's likely not fiscally responsible to do so), and ramp up the punishment for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
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i agree with you. But do you think it is smart to talk about pathways to citizenships and amnesty before a sustainable plan is in place to ensure border security? I don't think they should be rounded up or if that is even feasible but certainly giving the impression they will be able to get amnesty was a big factor in the humanitarian crisis at the border with the rush to get over here.
 
Deacs89 said:
i agree with you. But do you think it is smart to talk about pathways to citizenships and amnesty before a sustainable plan is in place to ensure border security? I don't think they should be rounded up or if that is even feasible but certainly giving the impression they will be able to get amnesty was a big factor in the humanitarian crisis at the border with the rush to get over here.
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Do rates of illegal immigration increase when amnesty is discussed in Washington? It seems like this could be a cause and effect situation, but I also don't know if there is any data or evidence to back it up.
 
Deacs89 said:
what can be said that would illustrate the need for America to not pursue a secure border? please tell me what you gathered from the video or your own life experiences thus far that would give an alternative view that is worth hearing and would change that basic premise.
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The cost. The inefficiency of having states do the walls within their borders with little communication between them. The fact that the border of our country with Mexico isn't a straight line and that makes doing a wall a logistical nightmare without cutting off part of our land behind the wall, infringing on private citizens' property rights, etc. etc.

Watch it to learn more!
 
deacvision7 said:
The cost. The inefficiency of having states do the walls within their borders with little communication between them. The fact that the border of our country with Mexico isn't a straight line and that makes doing a wall a logistical nightmare without cutting off part of our land behind the wall, infringing on private citizens' property rights, etc. etc.

Watch it to learn more!
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lol alllllright I will watch it.

after my next meeting.
 
Deacs89 said:
Can you fill me in ?
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This seems about right. AMIRITE????

latest
 
Deacs89 said:
RC can America not do both?
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Not entirely to be honest. There is a world-wide humanitarian crisis going on and "securing our borders and enforcing existing laws" is paramount to ignoring it and is antithetical to our founding principles.

It's also extremely detrimental to our long term national security and to tens of millions of people whose lives are worth just as much as yours or mine.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
We currently have over 42 million legal and illegal immigrants in the US. Do you have a number in mind when it comes to how many more you'd like to see be allowed to immigrate- will it ever be enough? For those that are here illegally, you think they should be given amnesty and allowed to stay?
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The percentage of the U.S. population that are immigrants has returned to pre-Immigration Act of 1924 levels (13-15%). Given America's capacity to support a larger population, globalization, and the current humanitarian crisis, I'd be fine seeing that rise to around 20% (~65 million). I'd obviously prefer all immigrants to the United States be documented.

While talking about building a wall and protecting our borders gives people a sense of security (a false one, but still), we'd be better off spending our time and money on documenting who is in the country rather than trying to keep everyone out.
 
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