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Sam Hartman

PhDeac said:
College sports have never been about fairness in competition. Seems disingenuous not to be worried about fairness when it comes to building facilities or coaches getting massive contracts, but getting worried about fairness when it comes to the free market setting the value of college athletes.
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Yea. That argument feels like the “too many games” excuses for no playoff or the even more absurd complaints about playoffs impacting academics.
 
He posted on Instagram today saying always and forever Go Deacs. I wish he would clarify that.
 
That’s pretty much how he ended his MVP speech.
 
TimmyClutch said:
He posted on Instagram today saying always and forever Go Deacs. I wish he would clarify that.
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I mean, he’s a deac. Always and forever. No matter what he does next year.
Deacfreak07 said:
Yea. That argument feels like the “too many games” excuses for no playoff or the even more absurd complaints about playoffs impacting academics.
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Exactly. And they don’t adopt nfl rules that would cut down the number of plays (and therefore risk of injury).
 
PhDeac said:
College sports have never been about fairness in competition. Seems disingenuous not to be worried about fairness when it comes to building facilities or coaches getting massive contracts, but getting worried about fairness when it comes to the free market setting the value of college athletes.
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Maybe not completely but good player development in a good system could overcome huge advantages in facilities and spending the in the past. Now it feels like that won't even be about to overcome those advantages when you could develop a player and then he be poached
 
A good coach could overcome it as well. But a coach could lead a team to a historic season and leave before the bowl game for a bigger payday. Now players can too.
 
With CFP expansion and 18-23 year olds (up to 25 in some cases) being asked to play 16-17 games, I wish the enhanced TV contracts included direct payments to players, including health insurance for life, to defray the expenses caused by playing a violent sport.

Of course this won’t happen, for many reasons, foremost being that the B1G and SEC have no legal obligation to pay their players, much less to subsidize the poorer conferences. But it should happen.
 
That's the system people complaining about "fairness" have resisted which led to the system we have.
 
The more I think about Sam's options, the more I think the portal option is risky. The portal could kill his chance of going pro. The obvious possibility is that he could get injured. He's currently healthy, as far as we know, and therefore best positioned for his Wake pro day and the combine.

But another possibility is that he goes to Florida or Notre Dame or wherever and doesn't perform well. He has been part of an offensive juggernaut for the past 5 years. Two of Wake's previous 3 QBs are in the NFL, and the QB that isn't is the one that transferred. He's been in a pass-focused offense with some fantastic receivers (Dortch, Washington, Surratt, Bachman, AT, Greene, Banks, Roberson, Morin, etc). He might not put up nearly the numbers at another school like he did at Wake. And if he stumbles a bit at another school, their coaches and fans might be quick to move on to another recruit.

Florida just got waxed by Oregon State while scoring only 3 points to end up 6-7 on the year, and Notre Dame lost to Marshall at home early in the year. I'm not sure a grad transfer QB is really positioned for success at either of those programs, and there really aren't many programs where success is extremely likely. It's hard to learn a new playbook and teammates and have immediate success.
 
Rafi said:
The more I think about Sam's options, the more I think the portal option is risky. The portal could kill his chance of going pro. The obvious possibility is that he could get injured. He's currently healthy, as far as we know, and therefore best positioned for his Wake pro day and the combine.

But another possibility is that he goes to Florida or Notre Dame or wherever and doesn't perform well. He has been part of an offensive juggernaut for the past 5 years. Two of Wake's previous 3 QBs are in the NFL, and the QB that isn't is the one that transferred. He's been in a pass-focused offense with some fantastic receivers (Dortch, Washington, Surratt, Bachman, AT, Greene, Banks, Roberson, Morin, etc). He might not put up nearly the numbers at another school like he did at Wake. And if he stumbles a bit at another school, their coaches and fans might be quick to move on to another recruit.

Florida just got waxed by Oregon State while scoring only 3 points to end up 6-7 on the year, and Notre Dame lost to Marshall at home early in the year. I'm not sure a grad transfer QB is really positioned for success at either of those programs, and there really aren't many programs where success is extremely likely. It's hard to learn a new playbook and teammates and have immediate success.
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Your NFL point is literally correct but one of those QB’s moved to WR.
 
Rafi said:
The more I think about Sam's options, the more I think the portal option is risky. The portal could kill his chance of going pro. The obvious possibility is that he could get injured. He's currently healthy, as far as we know, and therefore best positioned for his Wake pro day and the combine.

But another possibility is that he goes to Florida or Notre Dame or wherever and doesn't perform well. He has been part of an offensive juggernaut for the past 5 years. Two of Wake's previous 3 QBs are in the NFL, and the QB that isn't is the one that transferred. He's been in a pass-focused offense with some fantastic receivers (Dortch, Washington, Surratt, Bachman, AT, Greene, Banks, Roberson, Morin, etc). He might not put up nearly the numbers at another school like he did at Wake. And if he stumbles a bit at another school, their coaches and fans might be quick to move on to another recruit.

Florida just got waxed by Oregon State while scoring only 3 points to end up 6-7 on the year, and Notre Dame lost to Marshall at home early in the year. I'm not sure a grad transfer QB is really positioned for success at either of those programs, and there really aren't many programs where success is extremely likely. It's hard to learn a new playbook and teammates and have immediate success.
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Depends on how you define "risk".

Sam isn't guaranteed a dime if he tries to make an NFL roster, and to be honest, his ceiling for 2023 as an NFL player is likely to make a practice squad. NFL practice squad players are on week to week contracts for the regular season (18 weeks). This year, a rookie practice squad player who stays on the roster for all 18 weeks makes $205K (plus whatever his signing bonus is -- they are rarely more than $100K). So, if Sam makes an NFL practice squad for the entire 2023 season, he will make less than $300K, and it's within the realm if possibility that he could make far less.

If ND offers Sam a guaranteed deal of $1M+, have a hard time seeing how its "riskier" than trying to earn a living in the NFL. Do agree that college fans and coaches won't be patient with a 6th year senior college transfer QB. Next year, ND plays Tennessee in week #2 and tOSU in week #4. If ND loses those games (and falls out of the playoff conversation), ND would likely move on to grooming a younger QB for the future.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Your NFL point is literally correct but one of those QB’s moved to WR.
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And the QB that isn’t in the NFL is in the CFL which would be great for Hartman but there aren’t many spots for Americans.

There are risks either way. I wouldn’t blame him for taking a sure thing payday. I don’t think his NFL stock is at the point where playing and doing poorly could hurt him or help him that much.
 
Pilchard said:
Depends on how you define "risk".

Sam isn't guaranteed a dime if he tries to make an NFL roster, and to be honest, his ceiling for 2023 as an NFL player is likely to make a practice squad. NFL practice squad players are on week to week contracts for the regular season (18 weeks). This year, a rookie practice squad player who stays on the roster for all 18 weeks makes $205K (plus whatever his signing bonus is -- they are rarely more than $100K). So, if Sam makes an NFL practice squad for the entire 2023 season, he will make less than $300K, and it's within the realm if possibility that he could make far less.

If ND offers Sam a guaranteed deal of $1M+, have a hard time seeing how its "riskier" than trying to earn a living in the NFL. Do agree that college fans and coaches won't be patient with a 6th year senior college transfer QB. Next year, ND plays Tennessee in week #2 and tOSU in week #4. If ND loses those games (and falls out of the playoff conversation), ND would likely move on to grooming a younger QB for the future.
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No disagreement with anything you wrote. I would add, though, that I'm not sure NIL deals are nearly as large as some people claim, and I think there are also some sketchy deals and players never see what they are promised. $1M from Notre Dame seems like something that could happen, but these deals aren't coming from the school, they are coming from third parties.

We are obviously are speculating without knowing half the info, but I think if Sam gets some positive NFL feedback, he should go that route. Otherwise, he might find himself one year older and injured or coming off a subpar year.
 
I did read one thing about ND not talking NIL with incoming people until they are already enrolled. Who knows if that is true.
 
I vote for Sam to go the NFL route now following a record setting ACC season.... unless he wants a ND PhD or something.

But I don't get a vote. ;)
 
Agree that age is a factor for Hartman. He turns 24 next July. So, if he play college again next year, he would be 25 for his first NFL shot.
 
Pilchard said:
Agree that age is a factor for Hartman. He turns 24 next July. So, if he play college again next year, he would be 25 for his first NFL shot.
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Yep. Sam's a smart guy, he'll be assessing multiple factors and motivators. But the idea that he will just step into a "pro style offense" and boost his draft stock is pretty misguided, in my opinion (note - none of the recent posters implied this, but I've seen it implied elsewhere).
 
The NIL situation is so sketchy, but if he can get $1m he would be nuts to pass on it. Woffard is the exception, not the rule for guys that don't get drafted and actually get a contract as a number 2 QB. He has about $4-5m in NFL earnings. His making it in the league was pretty weird. He's probably done now that he had to play as a starter and failed. As most have said, Sam is probably best case a practice squad guy. He doesn't have the measurables for people to give him too many chances. He has a history of melting down over the last two years. Seems like his best chance to get paid for playing football is on an NIL deal at a P5 school but he's proven a lot of people wrong the last five years so who knows.
 
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