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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

LilburnDeac said:
What's the deal with Cantlay? I don't pay enough attention to golf to know why he is so hated.
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Now that DeChambeau has joined LIV, Cantlay may be the slowest guy on tour, and he has a negative personality. But at least he comes to play at the RC and PC. More than I can say for 8-9 other Americans.
 
If Rahm wasn't on another planet on day 1, it'd be down to the wire today
 
I've read some comments that Molinari did a great job setting this course up to favor the European team

Can any of you better golfers explain what that means?
 
nice job by acc legend max homa

btw, i get the joke but this thread title is very confusing. i had to do a search to find where to post.
 
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buckets said:
I've read some comments that Molinari did a great job setting this course up to favor the European team

Can any of you better golfers explain what that means?
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US team was statistically way better from 125 and in. They set the course up to minimize wedge approach shots.
 
The next US captain should have one focus, figure out who would be best suited to foursomes (alternate shot). Not who is buddies with this guy or who’d be great in the team room or grows a mullet with USA on the side, pick guys who are really consistent that would on paper at least be good in foursomes.
 
Liquid Karma said:
US team was statistically way better from 125 and in. They set the course up to minimize wedge approach shots.
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They also narrowed the fairways and had some really penal rough. And as Azinger was saying, they wanted as many 180-220 yard shots as possible because the Euros were statistically better on those shots as well as more accurate off the tee.

I'm really starting to build some contempt for Clark. Stupid comments going in and then was a total no show. Was carried by Homa and Cantlay with a bad choke on 18, and then he loses to the Euros weakest guy in singles.
 
cville deac said:
They also narrowed the fairways and had some really penal rough. And as Azinger was saying, they wanted as many 180-220 yard shots as possible because the Euros were statistically better on those shots as well as more accurate off the tee.

I'm really starting to build some contempt for Clark. Stupid comments going in and then was a total no show. Was carried by Homa and Cantlay with a bad choke on 18, and then he loses to the Euros weakest guy in singles.
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Fine line between healthy confidence and unhealthy ego. He probably needed a
little humble pie.
 
Best thing about the Ryder Cup being over is not having to listen to Azinger for a while. Really thought he may have had a stroke, just incapable of any sentences that weren't a jumble of "statistics say Americans are good at wedges" or "the euros have been dominant on the front 9" just non-stop. Rinse, repeat.

The plan for the course early was basically to have 6 par threes and never reward long/wayward drives. Euros had experience around and on those greens, obviously a little straighter and shorter than the Americans, so it was inmho an absurdly tricked up setup for them - they really made it more like 7 par threes, doing things like cutting 90 yards off of some par 4's so guys were taking something off their 3 woods to not go over... I love a good driveable par 4 like 16 playing 300 but having 5, 11, and 16 all play from the whites basically, plus only one par 5 playing a normal length... Just so over the top.

It'd be funny to see us legitimately reverse it next year in equal amounts - stretch all par 5's to over 600 yards with a 280 carry drive, pick 3 par 4's and make them all 550+. Leave the rough long until about 280 then cut it down...
 
liveanddiedeac said:
The next US captain should have one focus, figure out who would be best suited to foursomes (alternate shot). Not who is buddies with this guy or who’d be great in the team room or grows a mullet with USA on the side, pick guys who are really consistent that would on paper at least be good in foursomes.
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How do we do that? The reality is no one plays this alternate shot format in the states.

Muirfield (the real one) was literally designed for the format. It is part of European junior golf. That’s why they have had such an advantage for so long.

I disagree about the importance of the Ryder Cup. It’s cool and it’s fun. But any event that excludes some of the best players in the world based on nationality or politics can only be so important.

That’s why the 4 majors remain on another level to me.

The Ryder Cup is like the Players Championship. It intentionally excludes some or the best of the best and admits such.
 
donaldross said:
How do we do that? The reality is no one plays this alternate shot format in the states.

Muirfield (the real one) was literally designed for the format. It is part of European junior golf. That’s why they have had such an advantage for so long.

I disagree about the importance of the Ryder Cup. It’s cool and it’s fun. But any event that excludes some of the best players in the world based on nationality or politics can only be so important.

That’s why the 4 majors remain on another level to me.

The Ryder Cup is like the Players Championship. It intentionally excludes some or the best of the best and admits such.
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I was just getting ready to type a reasoned response and noticed it was from DR, so it’s not worth it.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I was just getting ready to type a reasoned response and noticed it was from DR, so it’s not worth it.
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Same.

DC, in 2025, it's at Bethpage Black, which is a monster of a course. My recollection is it normally has a graduated rough that gets more penal the further you stray, much like Marco Simone, but it certainly doesn't have 3 driveable par 4s. I expect us to set it up with wider fairways and less penal rough. It's the prerogative of the host team, and I have no problem with that and credit Eduardo Molinari as I said earlier. I don't think they tricked Marco Simone up any more than they did Valderrama in the past, and it played similar to the Italian Open a few months ago other than the additional 2 shortened par 3s. And if our guys wanted to be more familiar to the course, they could have played it in May, which none did, much like only JT played the French Open when the RC was in Paris. And they could have played a tourney or 2 in September like the Euros did.
 
Yeah I don't disagree with much of that - I think an underlying issue is that the US players only REALLY care about the Ryder Cup during the Ryder Cup. Outside of that it's largely lip-service and just the competition of making the team. Hence nobody played the Italian Open, very few played any real golf to prepare and instead just enjoyed their time off, then preparation seemed average at best. In the moment I think everyone gets fired up but it's clear the Euros care all year, every year, even in off-years.

I don't agree on the course setup, because while it's obviously the host team's option to set it up how they want, I do think there should be some limits in the spirit of competition. This is the first course that in my opinion crossed that line, because even if we'd played the Italian Open, the version for the Ryder Cup played so differently. #2 was 40 yards shorter, 5 was 100 yards shorter, 8 was 50 yards shorter, 11 was 30 shorter, 16 was 60 yards shorter, and then 18 as the only hole over 600 despite being downhill - they move it up 30 and give them an angle to use the slope so you can have a 5 iron in. And those were just the glaring changes. I just think there's a difference between setting up a course and fundamentally altering it to let guys hit 3 woods into multiple par 4's. Mainly I'm just pointing out that doing the reverse - adding 500+ yards to Bethpage as it was last used for non-major, would push it to roughly 8,000 yards as a par 71. There would be an absolute meltdown on the Euro side if we did that. Valderrama was nowhere close to that level of manipulated even though it had some dumb holes.
 
I would love a statistical comparison of the guys on both teams in all the metrics that illustrate length and accuracy. Because on the surface, it seems hugely reductive to say "European players are only good on short, tight courses" and "US players only excel on long, open courses." Like, Rory and Rahm hit the shit out of the ball, Morikawa and Cantlay hit a bunch of fairways, etc. Are their skillsets really that different that setting up the courses like they have the last couple cups makes that much of a difference? Or has this just become a convenient narrative?
 
DCDeac said:
Yeah I don't disagree with much of that - I think an underlying issue is that the US players only REALLY care about the Ryder Cup during the Ryder Cup. Outside of that it's largely lip-service and just the competition of making the team. Hence nobody played the Italian Open, very few played any real golf to prepare and instead just enjoyed their time off, then preparation seemed average at best. In the moment I think everyone gets fired up but it's clear the Euros care all year, every year, even in off-years.

I don't agree on the course setup, because while it's obviously the host team's option to set it up how they want, I do think there should be some limits in the spirit of competition. This is the first course that in my opinion crossed that line, because even if we'd played the Italian Open, the version for the Ryder Cup played so differently. #2 was 40 yards shorter, 5 was 100 yards shorter, 8 was 50 yards shorter, 11 was 30 shorter, 16 was 60 yards shorter, and then 18 as the only hole over 600 despite being downhill - they move it up 30 and give them an angle to use the slope so you can have a 5 iron in. And those were just the glaring changes. I just think there's a difference between setting up a course and fundamentally altering it to let guys hit 3 woods into multiple par 4's. Mainly I'm just pointing out that doing the reverse - adding 500+ yards to Bethpage as it was last used for non-major, would push it to roughly 8,000 yards as a par 71. There would be an absolute meltdown on the Euro side if we did that. Valderrama was nowhere close to that level of manipulated even though it had some dumb holes.
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100 percent agree with this and have said as much. The Euros focus is always on the Ryder Cup, to them the importance is at least on par with the majors. I honestly don’t think a guy like Ian Poulter, who in many respects probably has under achieved in his career, has any regrets as he was a stone killer in Ryder Cups and I doubt he’d trade that for a major win.
 
For Deac's Sake said:
I would love a statistical comparison of the guys on both teams in all the metrics that illustrate length and accuracy. Because on the surface, it seems hugely reductive to say "European players are only good on short, tight courses" and "US players only excel on long, open courses." Like, Rory and Rahm hit the shit out of the ball, Morikawa and Cantlay hit a bunch of fairways, etc. Are their skillsets really that different that setting up the courses like they have the last couple cups makes that much of a difference? Or has this just become a convenient narrative?
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It’s a convenient narrative. The Euros have plenty of guys that hit it long and we’ve got plenty of guys that aren’t “long” by professional standards, but hit fairways. Add Harmon to you list for the US and Aberg to your list for the Euros too. It really boils down to preparation and who is on their game. I will say it’s probably easier for most of the Euros to get in more practice at the host course when the US hosts the Cup, most of their guys live over here. Listening to PGA tour radio today, they said the US team lost the alternate shot sessions 7-1, we lost overall 16 1/2 to 11 1/2. So, it’s easy to see where the Euros won it and that has been a recurring theme. Should be obvious where our performance needs to improve, so I hope the next captain does everything they can to put together some guys that should play well in alternate shot and not put guys out there that don‘t. Jordan Spieth is my favorite player, but unless Jordan becomes a consistent ball striker in the next 2 years, he should never be put out in alternate shot. He’s too erratic and it asks too much of his partner to recover from the places he puts them in. When he’s on, he‘s fine in 4 ball where he can make his birdies, but has backup when he hits it all over the yard on a hole. I’m certainly not saying that having Bradley and Glover on the team would’ve changed the outcome, but typically those are 2 guys that aren’t going to get their alternate shot partner in too much trouble. I don’t know who it will be in 2 years, but I hope some major thought will be given to who might be some picks that would seem to be good alternative shot players and less thought to “, well Scottie and Sam are buds, and Jordan and Justin are buds, etc.” It‘s too bad a guy like Kevin Kisner was so bad this past season, he‘s a guy when on his game would’ve been perfect for that setup.
 
We have the same vice captains every cup and they are so old almost none of our players can relate to them. For Davis and Couples it’s a free vacation every two years; they are the Ryder Cup version of Joe Biden and Diane Feinstein, old and past their time. Like SEC football it just means more to Europe. Our guys didnt prepare and foursomes on Friday basically ended it.

Europe press conference after Whistling Straights was like a funeral, they were crushed. USA press conference after Rome seemed like a bunch of guys cracking jokes and not really caring. Luke Donald was a perfect captain and hope they bring him back again.
 
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