This x 10! Bobby Knight and Dean Smith would turn in their graves after seeing our offense. The no motion offense. Hell, we could run the old Kentucky shuffle and it would be an improvement.
Slowing Tempo Would Help Wake
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This x 10! Bobby Knight and Dean Smith would turn in their graves after seeing our offense. The no motion offense. Hell, we could run the old Kentucky shuffle and it would be an improvement.
RacerDeac
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Bobby is dead?
Renfield
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Didn't they bury him upside down so his critics could kiss his a**?
EatLeadCommie
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Sucking less would work too.
CantStandYa
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[Any kind of change in the game plan] would help Wake.
Deacsfan27
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I mean it's still 40 minutes of basketball.
Slower paced basketball also has fewer turnovers so there are fewer stoppages of play, so arguably by going slower it would go quicker (if that makes sense).
Deacsfan27
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Curious why you think 1 & 3.
1. Doral hardly ever touches the ball in transition as it is.
2. I agree that offensive rebounding would be tougher, but as is we only have one guy getting most of the offensive rebounds anyway.
3. We are bad in transition and hardly ever spot up in transition anyway, so I don't really see the logical conclusion for this one.
Deacsfan27
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Appreciate it (tried to rep you, but apparently have repped you too recently).
#1 - it is much, much easier to cover anyone and help on anyone if the offense is slower. If the players and ball move quickly, it's much harder to help. Also, since you don't have to move as much against a slower offense, fewer passing, cutting and posting lanes are available.
#3- It's not about transition. If you are playing slowly on offense, you don't need to help as much. Thus, you will be closer to the spot up shooters. You don't have to cheat as much to help. This means less space and fewer lanes. Now, add to that, Wilbekin and Brandon are very short and means with less space more of their shots will be contested and missed.
macktheknife
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Nothing helps when you have a bunch of players who cannot stick the ball in the basket. Step one.
RacerDeac
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Playing slowly does not mean you run and pass slower. Come on RJ...I don't expect a lot out of you, but you've exceeded my lack of expectations.
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Deacsfan27
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When I say "slow down", I mean limit transition and be more methodical in the half court offense. Virginia had multiple possessions against us where they passed the ball 10+ times in a possession. The ball hardly ever gets "stuck" and when an open shot is found it is taken. They are the slowest team in average possession length in the country on offense, but still rank 42nd in offensive efficiency. They just find the right shot at the right time, and a lot of that is due to slowly bringing the ball up court (because they hardly ever get out in transition). Basically they start each possession with 18-20 seconds after getting to the 3-point line.
Tempo has nothing to do with "passing slower". You can pass the ball 20 times a possession and never dribble and still take up 30 seconds on a shot clock. I'm not suggesting we go 4 corners when we get the ball. I mean slowly getting up court after a defensive rebound and not looking to get into a secondary break. This slows the game down and we can still move the ball quickly and efficiently on offense (or I guess to our current efficient rate of 81st nationally).
Deacsfan27
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There is a good case for nobody ever shooting 2's except Doral and chucking threes for most of the game given the current percentages.
If UVA had rebounders, they would run more. They have to rebound as a group on D.
If your team has inferior talent, you need to get the ball up the court quicker to avoid allowing the more talented tam to set-up on D.
UVA has far superior players to Wake. you can't expect the same type of results.
Where were we two games ago? The last two games dropped our numbers dramatically. Not having Key being fully available (and out for one) for the past five games has hurt dramatically.
Deacsfan27
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They don't "have to rebound as a group", they choose to. That makes sure that you end the possession after most missed shots, and it also allows for a slower pace up the court. I am not going to pretend like they have elite rebounders, but this is a philosophical decision by Bennett to play in that style. There are a lot of teams out there that can get stops or force missed shots, but they fail to secure the defensive rebound because they are leaking out. By keeping everybody back it boosts your chances a lot to secure the rebound and end the defensive possession.
Bennett has been at Virginia 10 years and his teams have yet to finish outside the top 50 nationally in defensive rebounding percentage (interestingly enough they are 100th this year and that will likely end this season). 5 of those seasons they are in the top 20, with 3 top 10 finishes. This is done by design, but also because they have good rebounders.
Obviously Virginia has better players than Wake overall just based on recruiting rankings and development (and record over the past few years). The reason why I suggested Wake slow things down in the first place is that it is awful on offense and defense in transition. If Wake were doing well offensively in transition then I would say go for it, but they are much more efficient in the half-court offense, both relative to transition offense and amongst the other NCAA teams as far as percentile ranking. My thought process is to cut down even more on the transition (where we are poor efficiently), and weight our offense even more in the half-court sets, which is more efficient and also seems to play to the strengths of Manning, backed up by our 7th ranked offense last year and his success at Wake Forest in out-of-bounds set plays for the past 4 years.
What are you asking in your final point? What we were tempo-wise before the last two games? I am guessing that offset because UVA is the slowest team in the nation and Duke is the 39th fastest team in the nation.
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Overall efficiency before Key got hurt and after.
Also to play slowly you have to have guys who are good and quick passers. Add to that, most of the time our guys who would passing are small and not that quick. That's not a good combination for this type of offense.
Also to play slowly you have to have guys who are good and quick passers. Add to that, most of the time our guys who would passing are small and not that quick. That's not a good combination for this type of offense.
Deacsfan27
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Right, but we already are better in the half court offense than we are in transition, so even though our guys may not be "good" at that, they are better at that then what we are currently doing by getting into transition 13% of the time. It seems to me that if we lowered that even more and went into more half court sets (where we are more efficient) then we would increase overall productivity and up our win expectancy.
Let me see if I can figure out the offensive efficiency since before Key went down. KenPom doesn't archive it (visibly) for each game but I think I wrote the OE and DE in a preview before the Syracuse game.