• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

So, what dirt does Snowden still have?

It was revealed at a hearing yesterday that NSA analysts can perform what's called a "3-hop" query. I don't know how he came up with this math, but AP reporter Adam Goldman tweeted: If person calls 40 unique people, 3-hop analysis allows US to mine records of 2.5 million Americans when investigating 1 suspected terrorist
The National Security Agency revealed to an angry congressional panel on Wednesday that its analysis of phone records and online behavior goes exponentially beyond what it had previously disclosed.

John C Inglis, the deputy director of the surveillance agency, told a member of the House judiciary committee that NSA analysts can perform "a second or third hop query" through its collections of telephone data and internet records in order to find connections to terrorist organizations.

"Hops" refers to a technical term indicating connections between people. A three-hop query means that the NSA can look at data not only from a suspected terrorist, but from everyone that suspect communicated with, and then from everyone those people communicated with, and then from everyone all of those people communicated with.

Inglis did not elaborate, nor did the members of the House panel – many of whom expressed concern and even anger at the NSA – explore the legal and privacy implications of the breadth of "three-hop" analysis.

But Inglis and other intelligence and law enforcement officials testifying before the committee said that the NSA's ability to query the data follows rules set by the secret Fisa court, although about two dozen NSA officials determine for themselves when those criteria are satisified.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-surveillance-house-hearing
 
It was revealed at a hearing yesterday that NSA analysts can perform what's called a "3-hop" query. I don't know how he came up with this math, but AP reporter Adam Goldman tweeted: If person calls 40 unique people, 3-hop analysis allows US to mine records of 2.5 million Americans when investigating 1 suspected terrorist

The math just seems based on the number 40. That said, the number at any of those hops could be more or less than 40, so the point still stands that 3 hops allows an exponential amount of investigation.

40 (0 hop) x 40 (1 hop) x 40 (2 hop) x 40 (3 hop) = 2.56 million

The worst part is that if a suspect/terrorist shows up somewhere in the 3 hop, many others in that query is likely now considered suspect as well and you can start 3-hopping them. It doesn't take long before everyone's communications are being monitored "justifiably."
 
If you're referring to his mention of torture, some other people have said the same thing, thinking he was referring to how he could withstand it. Glenn Greenwald says that's not what he's referring to- it's more like if he were tortured and provided all the info he had it still wouldn't be enough to access the documents. They don't depend on him, or at least don't depend on him solely. This is just speculation but maybe a number of different people, unknown to one another, have parts of the key or something? I'm sure there would be a way to access them- but I wouldn't be surprised if it would require considerably more than capturing and torturing Snowden.

Why do you think China, Russia, Ecuador, and Iceland have all passed on Snowden? Don't know, but I assume he gave the former two what they wanted and they had no more use for him. Could also be he didn't give them enough and they decided he wasn't worth their time. Venezuela, Bolivia, and Nicaragua look for opportunities to fuck with America any chance they get, and I find it highly unlikely they were Snowden's first choices. I do think Iceland and Ecuador were his first choices and I don't understand why they've passed on granting Snowden asylum.
 
Why do you think China, Russia, Ecuador, and Iceland have all passed on Snowden? Don't know, but I assume he gave the former two what they wanted and they had no more use for him. Could also be he didn't give them enough and they decided he wasn't worth their time.
The President of Ecuador says the article suggesting they were denying Snowden asylum was wrong and that they would still consider giving him asylum. They actually filmed the interview with the reporter and uploaded the vid to YouTube. Iceland would've been the nicest place for him but they have a new conservative government, conservative by Icelandic standards, and would probably hand him over to the US. He just applied for temporary asylum with Russia. This will allow him to leave the airport and visit embassies and fill out paperwork, travel, etc- assuming the Russians grant it.
Venezuela, Bolivia, and Nicaragua look for opportunities to fuck with America any chance they get, and I find it highly unlikely they were Snowden's first choices. I do think Iceland and Ecuador were his first choices and I don't understand why they've passed on granting Snowden asylum.
I agree. But he has few options. There just aren't that many places on the planet that are willing to stand up to US pressure.
 
I agree. But he has few options. There just aren't that many places on the planet that are willing to stand up to US pressure.

so now it's inarguable that the U.S. abuses power domestically and internationally. sweet.
 
Pretty much all that the US media is reporting today regarding Jimmy Carter is that he told an Atlanta tv station that the Zimmerman jury reached the right verdict. But there is also an article by Der Spiegel where he is quoted as coming out in support of Snowden and saying: "America does not have a functioning democracy at this point in time." I think for a former president to say that is stunning and I wonder if the US media will pick it up.
 
so now it's inarguable that the U.S. abuses power domestically and internationally. sweet.
There was a press conference on Friday where the journalists really let the State Department spokesman have it. It's funny watching her get more and more pissed off, all the while maintaining a phony smile. This was much more contentious than what you get at a White House press briefing.
 
There just aren't that many places on the planet that are willing to stand up to US pressure.

Don't think the US has much leverage on Nicaragua, Ecuador, or Bolivia but at least with Venezuela there's the Citgo angle. Would be a lose/lose for both the US and Venezuela to cut commercial ties on oil.

Pretty much all that the US media is reporting today regarding Jimmy Carter is that he told an Atlanta tv station that the Zimmerman jury reached the right verdict. But there is also an article by Der Spiegel where he is quoted as coming out in support of Snowden and saying: "America does not have a functioning democracy at this point in time." I think for a former president to say that is stunning and I wonder if the US media will pick it up.

I worked in Germany for a couple of years and Der Spiegel is an extremely well written and thoughtful magazine. Kind of a German version of The Atlantic or The Economist.
 
Obama, the only president to charge 8 people under the draconian Espionage Act (heretofore only 3 people had been charged since 1917), is threatening to cancel his visit to Moscow and today criticized Russia for imprisoning a whistleblower. And then there's this:
Kerry said to give stern warning to Caracas on Snowden
Washington is reported to have warned Caracas it would be barred from entering any NATO airspace if it flies U.S. secrets leaker Edward Snowden to Venezuela.

Secretary of State John Kerry, who Spanish newspaper ABC said made the warning to Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua, also said Washington would halt all sales of vital gasoline and other refined-oil products to Venezuela if Snowden gets refuge in that country, the newspaper said.


Kerry made the blunt statements during a nighttime phone call a week ago to tell Jaua Washington revoked the U.S. visas of Venezuelan government officials and business leaders in retaliation for President Nicolas Maduro's asylum offer to Snowden last month, ABC said, citing sources familiar with the conversation.
Avoiding NATO airspace -- which would mean avoiding 26 countries in Europe and two in North America, including the United States -- could mean Caracas would need to fly Snowden to Venezuela over the Pacific Ocean rather than the Atlantic, ABC said.

A Venezuelan air force Boeing 707 could fly the longer Pacific route without refueling, but Venezuela's military would likely not wish to confront Washington by doing this, the newspaper reported.

Other aircraft could fly from a Russian Pacific coast city such as Vladivostok, making a fueling stop in Nicaragua, the newspaper said.

Kerry told Jaua if Caracas flies Snowden to Venezuela it could not ensure a replay of the diplomatic power play involving Bolivian President Evo Morales unless Maduro himself picks up Snowden, rather than any other Venezuelan official, even if Caracas provides its presidential plane, ABC reported.

"The immunity is not for the plane but the president," unidentified sources quoted Kerry as saying.

The presidential plane carrying Morales home to Bolivia from Russia was rerouted to Austria July 2 after France, Portugal, Spain and Italy denied it access to their airspace due to suspicions Snowden was on board.

Austrian Foreign Ministry officials later confirmed Snowden was not on board.
Kerry's threat to suspend gasoline shipments could cripple Venezuela's daily activities, ABC said.

Venezuela, despite being the world's No. 5 oil-exporting country, with the world's largest heavy crude-oil reserve, does not have the capability to refine oil into gasoline and other fuels. Its refineries fell into disrepair during the presidency of Hugo Chavez.

It sells crude at a about $5 a barrel to U.S. companies that refine it and sell it back gasoline at the going rate of more than $100 a barrel.

Venezuela imports some 500,000 barrels of gasoline from the United States a month, along with 350,000 barrels of MTBE octane-boosting gasoline additives, ABC said. It also imports other petroleum products from the United States.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/07/19/Kerry-said-to-give-stern-warning-to-Caracas-on-Snowden/UPI-82681374213600/?spt=hs&or=tn
 
He stopped being a whistleblower when he stole 1M documents. He further stopped being a whistleblower when he let our enemies know there were over 1M peope who could be compromised to give out the names and locations of out offices and assets. A whistleblower doesn't threaten the country with outing data that could harm national security.

He had a chance to be a hero.
 
Snowden threw the first punch. He should expect to get hit back.
 
I wonder what it would do to the price of gas in this country if we did halt all sales of gasoline and oil refined products to Venezuela and they tried to use their oil to retaliate? It seems like just the threat of something like this often leads to a spike in prices. And it seems a bit incongruous with this:
The United States won't be scrambling military jets or engaging in high-level diplomatic bartering to get National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden extradited to the U.S., President Barack Obama said Thursday.

Dismissing him as "a 29-year-old hacker," Obama sought to downplay the international chase for Snowden, lowering the temperature of an issue that has already raised tensions between the U.S. and uneasy partners Russia and China.

Obama said the damage to U.S. national security has already been done and his top focus now is making sure it can't happen again.

"I'm not going to have one case with a suspect who we're trying to extradite suddenly be elevated to the point where I've got to start doing wheeling and dealing and trading on a whole host of other issues, simply to get a guy extradited so he can face the justice system," Obama said at a joint news conference with Senegal's President Macky Sall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/obama-edward-snowden_n_3509070.html
 
Snowden threw the first punch. He should expect to get hit back.

r-GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BLOODY-FACE-PHOTO-large570-150x150.jpg
 
You have no idea that he didn't start the fight. It's far more logical that he did.
 
He stopped being a whistleblower when he stole 1M documents. He further stopped being a whistleblower when he let our enemies know there were over 1M peope who could be compromised to give out the names and locations of out offices and assets. A whistleblower doesn't threaten the country with outing data that could harm national security.

He had a chance to be a hero.

I am with RJ on this one. Snowden crossed the line and that has a cost.
 
Actually you have that partially correct. Under W it was illegal wiretapping. Obama apparently followed the law, but the law shouldn't exist as it is.
 
Back
Top