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Spurs Love [Redacted]

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
You're seriously trying to compare the situation that O'Brien took over at Penn State post-Sandusky to what [Redacted] took over at Wake post-Dino?
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My point is that someone who is a great assistant/scout doesn't automatically make him a great HC/GM. The Head coach has to stand in front of the team and give "The Speech". They have to make all the little decisions that go unnoticed unless they are wrong, and the consequences have a ripple effect on the program. They meet the press and are the face of the program. These are the aspects that Bzz seems to be lacking in. Herm Edwards was a great motivational speaker but was lousey with X's and O's, as well as clock management. Norm Chow was great with a game plan, but couldn't motivate CPA's on April 14th. This is what I was trying to say.
 
PhDeac said:
DC's argument suggests practice started an hour before the Stetson tip.
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No. My argument suggests that by the time you're an ACC player in college, you understand how to play basic man defense. It was probably the worst defensive performance I've ever seen from a Wake Forest team. [Redacted] may suck huge balls, but we were also very bad. Good players win against shitty teams even if their coach is awful. And even good coaches lose when they have bad players.

Stetson showed us how high the mountain was. [Redacted] seems to be on pace to climb about 10% of it every year, unfortunately.
 
DCDeac said:
No. My argument suggests that by the time you're an ACC player in college, you understand how to play basic man defense. It was probably the worst defensive performance I've ever seen from a Wake Forest team. [Redacted] may suck huge balls, but we were also very bad. Good players win against shitty teams even if their coach is awful.

Not unless they totally ignore his instructions. This coach has proven ad nausem that he cannot coach defense. His teams always underperform their talent and the youth factor just made it worse.

And even good coaches lose when they have bad players.

Not ACC caliber coaches, not those players, not to that Stetson team.

Stetson showed us how high the mountain was. [Redacted] seems to be on pace to climb about 10% of it every year, unfortunately.
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The only thing that Stetson showed us was just how incompetent Jeff [Redacted] is.
 
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coredeac said:
Why are the Presbyterian Blue Hose being left out of this discussion? :)
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These posts would be VERY long if the discussion included every team to which Buzz should not have lost. But your point is well taken! :thumbsup:
 
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Deacsfan27 said:
To be fair, that class that was rated 6th was hilariously overrated. That also had a lot to do with it (along with having Jeff [Redacted] coaching here).
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Sad as hell only 1 of those 5 guys is left. It's not like the other 4 left to go play in the NBA.



DEACS76 said:
Tom O'Brian left that job, went to Penn St and lost to OHIO in his opener. Yet, was given a raise to keep him in Happy Valley and not go back top the NFL.
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
You're seriously trying to compare the situation that O'Brien took over at Penn State post-Sandusky to what [Redacted] took over at Wake post-Dino?
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DEACS76 said:
My point is that someone who is a great assistant/scout doesn't automatically make him a great HC/GM.
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So to make that point you use Bill O'Brien, who was the National Coach of the Year in his 1st year as a head coach at any level? :tard:
 
thedeacfan said:
The only thing that Stetson showed us was just how incompetent Jeff [Redacted] is.
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So he didn't "coach up" our players to play man defense against a team like Stetson? Seriously?

Not sure if people are just in love with the Bzdelike is an idiot narrative or just clueless about basketball. The current sophomores didn't put up a single defensive game anywhere close to as horrid last year as that Stetson one. I understand most fans don't care much about defense, but it's a really naive to ignore.
 
So to make that point you use Bill O'Brien, who was the National Coach of the Year in his 1st year as a head coach at any level? :tard:[/QUOTE] Should have said Todd Haley, not TO'B I got my NE OC's mixed up.
 
DCDeac said:
So he didn't "coach up" our players to play man defense against a team like Stetson? Seriously?

"Coaching up" refers to motivating players for a particular game. The Stetson pregame speech was not his first "coaching" activity with the team. And yes "man to man" is a very basic strategy, but there are variations in how different coaches instruct their teams to respond in specific situations. After three years now it should be obvious to everyone that a [Redacted] led team's defense is different (and less effective).

Not sure if people are just in love with the Bzdelike is an idiot narrative or just clueless about basketball.

The [Redacted] "is an idiot narrative" writes itself and it does not matter whether you love it or not. It just is what it is. And anyone who has watched the last three years of Buzzball and STILL blames the players, is "just clueless about basketball".

The current sophomores didn't put up a single defensive game anywhere close to as horrid last year as that Stetson one. I understand most fans don't care much about defense, but it's a really naive to ignore.
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I think by now the assistant coaches have learned that they have to step up and try to make up for Buzz's incompetence. Unfortunately, there's only so much an assistant can do... And I have always cared very much about defense and it is the aspect of the game that can be most impacted by a gameday coach who can "coach up" his players.
 
Nah, bro. Only one way to play man-to-man. Coach has nothing to do with it.
 
DCDeac said:
So he didn't "coach up" our players to play man defense against a team like Stetson? Seriously?

Not sure if people are just in love with the Bzdelike is an idiot narrative or just clueless about basketball. The current sophomores didn't put up a single defensive game anywhere close to as horrid last year as that Stetson one. I understand most fans don't care much about defense, but it's a really naive to ignore.
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Maybe our game plan defensively was just wretched that game?

How many times did we give up 90 points the rest of the season? (I'm too lazy to look that up)
 
PhDeac said:
Nah, bro. Only one way to play man-to-man. Coach has nothing to do with it.
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Should have read entire thread before commenting.

Yes, there are many, many different ways to play man-to-man.
 
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PhDeac said:
Nah, bro. Only one way to play man-to-man. Coach has nothing to do with it.
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Just keep putting words in my mouth to prop up your argument, whatever it is.

Coaches can have a huge impact on defensive strategy. Strategy in man-to-man defenses varies somewhat as far as help defense and when to double but the core concepts never change. Primarily good coaches teach technique - closeouts, footwork, ball denial, pressure, etc.

Doesn't change the fact that kids who play basketball their entire lives generally arrive at college with a pretty good understanding of what man defense is. When they don't, it's no different than a kid arriving with a low shot release or an Overton leg kick. When coaches try to correct a shot or habit like that - they're typically not labeled absolute failures when it's still there in game 1 of their freshmen years.

The argument that [Redacted] didn't get the kids excited enough in their debut as college players is laughable.

Not sure why it's so hard for people to grasp that we had big time talent issues and we combined it with a terrible coaching hire which resulted in a total dumpster fire. I bet some posters could talk themselves into believing that team could have been a tournament team with another coach. I think it's just easier to believe everything begins and ends with [Redacted] - that he is and always has been the only problem which we can solve immediately.
 
We didn't have the talent to make the NCCAT.

Last year's team could have been a borderline NIT team with a decent coach. There weer 5-7 games a good coach could have won with the talent we had.

One of the most basic things he does wrong is taking guys out who have hit 2,3 or 4 shots in row. You never do that unless the guy is in foul trouble.

His absolute adherence to substitution patterns is logical in the NBA but isn't the same in the college game.

In three years, he hasn't improved our boxing out or switching one little bit.
 
i guess i am still waiting for evidence, any evidence at all, that bzz is a "great basketball mind." what is it... three winning seasons in his career as a coach? (1 nba and 2 at air force?)

as many have said before if the nba thought so highly of him they would have given him another shot after denver. if ncaa thought more of him he would have been able to jump ship to another gig with far less heat this off season. i guess he is just a loyal guy...

as for the opening post, if buford said that to you you responded with "then why in the world is his career coaching record so awful? what is going wrong?"
 
DCDeac said:
No. My argument suggests that by the time you're an ACC player in college, you understand how to play basic man defense. It was probably the worst defensive performance I've ever seen from a Wake Forest team. [Redacted] may suck huge balls, but we were also very bad. Good players win against shitty teams even if their coach is awful. And even good coaches lose when they have bad players.

Stetson showed us how high the mountain was. [Redacted] seems to be on pace to climb about 10% of it every year, unfortunately.
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1. Wake wasn't better than many teams that year, but Stetson was one of the teams we were better than.
2. That wasn't even one of Wake's worst 10 defensive performances of the year adjusting for pace.
3. The game was extremely high paced meaning that 89 points wasn't as ridiculous as it seems.
4. The team played a Hampton team within the next week who was better than Stetson in pretty much every category and managed to have one of our best defensive performances in the three years [Redacted] has been here.

The Stetson game wasn't really because of any individual factor is my point. But to say that the Stetson loss should be written off is ridiculous.
 
89 points was the most Stetson scored in regulation all year - they didn't even get to 80 points for the rest of the season. And calling the game "high paced" is just a nice way of saying we made no effort to get back on defense and didn't run much offense. And Hampton? Really? The team that lost to Duke by over 40 after winning their garbage conference and playing no decent teams? That's a measure of defensive performance when we forced just 9 turnovers? I just... I don't understand. How far back do you have to go before you find a Wake team so bad that you couldn't leave the coaches in the locker room and beat Stetson and Hampton? Or one that would measure beating Hampton by 6 in their season opener as some kind of defensive statement?

Our players weren't good. Our coach wasn't good. It added up to disaster. Then we followed up the disaster by essentially skipping a year of recruiting. There's plenty of blame to go around.
 
I remember seeing Campbell University play Stetson later that season at Buies Creek and after the Camels throttled them by 30 (85-55, thanks Google) my buddy looked at me and said "how the hell did Wake lose to them?"
 
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