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University of Texas adopts Rooney Rule

PhDeac said:
sailor, I don't understand why you have to make things so complicated. The Rooney Rule is simple.

Instead of only recruiting and considering the best white candidates, recruit and consider the best candidates regardless of race.
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Yeah but you've got to make sure that the 5th best white candidate gets a fair shot.
 
PhDeac said:
sailor, I don't understand why you have to make things so complicated. The Rooney Rule is simple.

Instead of only recruiting and considering the best white candidates, recruit and consider the best candidates regardless of race.
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How is making a certain race a mandatory consideration acting "regardless of race."
 
How is only considering white candidates "regardless of race?"

What is your opposition to considering all candidates instead of just white candidates?
 
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PhDeac said:
sailor, I don't understand why you have to make things so complicated. The Rooney Rule is simple.

Instead of only recruiting and considering the best white candidates, recruit and consider the best candidates regardless of race.
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I am not. I am trying to avoid having people excluded because of their race, gender, or ethnicity so that other people can be included because of their race, gender, or ethnicity.
 
PhDeac said:
How is only considering white candidates "regardless of race?"

What is your opposition to considering all candidates instead of just white candidates?
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Seriously? I am for considering all qualified candidates. I am not for mandatory consideration of candidates based on color or any other criterion other than merit. You are. That is the definition of a quota. It is also unconstitutional as UT will probably soon find out in the latest appeal of the Fisher case.
 
sailordeac said:
I am not. I am trying to avoid having people excluded because of their race, gender, or ethnicity so that other people can be included because of their race, gender, or ethnicity.
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This is the status quo. Minorities are excluded from positions, or even consideration for positions, so that more white people can be included. The evidence of this is a quick glance at the overwhelming whiteness of leadership positions in America.

In most cases this isn't the result of overt racism, but rather of inherent biases that are difficult for people to recognize within themselves. The Rooney rule, while imperfect, at least seeks to counteract those biases so that any given pool of candidates is more likely to be the most qualified pool of candidates.
 
simosfrostyone said:
Seriously? I am for considering all qualified candidates. I am not for mandatory consideration of candidates based on color or any other criterion other than merit. You are. That is the definition of a quota. It is also unconstitutional as UT will probably soon find out in the latest appeal of the Fisher case.
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How do you suggest we do this? Because it certainly isn't being done now.
 
PhDeac said:
How is only considering white candidates "regardless of race?"

What is your opposition to considering all candidates instead of just white candidates?
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Most reasonable people believe candidates of all races are considered. This is simply a form of reverse racial discrimination. When I was in undergrad and graduate school, I certainly didn't concern myself with he race of the professor. I simply wanted the best professor. When making racial quotas in determining who is interviewed or who is hired you are instituting reverse racial discrimination rather than solely considering the merits of the candidates. Presuming racial discrimination based purely upon current faculty racial demographics is pure folly. Isn't the job of academia education? If so, shouldn't the best professor regardless of color be selected? Hiring based upon racial discrimination or reverse racial discrimination are equally wrong. Is this really that difficult to understand?
 
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Wouldn't it be reasonable to make sure non-white candidates are considered rather than assuming non-white candidates are considered with no evidence to support it?
 
I would love to live in a world where we didn't need the Rooney rule, and believe that in one or two generations it won't be necessary, but the realit y is that at this point most decisions are being made by OWGs that went to segregated schools.

I have worked at places where a name that sounded AA would have absolutely counted against the applicant.
 
PhDeac said:
Wouldn't it be reasonable to make sure non-white candidates are considered rather than assuming non-white candidates are considered with no evidence to support it?
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I believe non-white candidates are already considered equally and probably more favorably than white candidates in academia. Concerning medical school, it is much easier for an African American applicant to gain admittance than a white applicant. I was on a medical school admissions committee, so I have first hand knowledge of this practice. I do not know why this would change when it comes to faculty positions outside of medicine. I am unaware of any evidence to support your position in academia.
 
Why would you rather "believe" it than to assure it?
 
The only thing you are "assuring" is reverse racial discrimination. Reverse racial discrimination is equivalent to racial discrimination if your goal is merit based hiring. Perhaps your issue is merit based hiring.
 
HowardDeanSux said:
I believe non-white candidates are already considered equally and probably more favorably than white candidates in academia. Concerning medical school, it is much easier for an African American applicant to gain admittance than a white applicant. I was on a medical school admissions committee, so I have first hand knowledge of this practice. I do not know why this would change when it comes to faculty positions outside of medicine. I am unaware of any evidence to support your position in academia.
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This should be caveated with "all other things being equal". On average, it's more difficult for a Black American to make it to the point of being considered by a medical school acceptance committee.
 
HowardDeanSux said:
The only thing you are "assuring" is reverse racial discrimination. Reverse racial discrimination is equivalent to racial discrimination if your goal is merit based hiring. Perhaps your issue is merit based hiring.
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I'm for merit based hiring. You're the one for only hiring white people. I'm for hiring by merit among all candidates.

Why would merit based hiring exclude non-white candidates?
 
You seem to be blind to the fact that guaranteeing someone a spot in a hiring pool because of color is to deprive someone else for that reason.
 
The MCAT, GPA, research and clinical experiences are no where near equal. Lesser applicants are admitted strictly based upon their skin color. That is what I meant. No more, no less. In addition, as you well know, the majority of the minority applicants admitted with lesser qualifications come from backgrounds quite similar to their white classmates. The high socioeconomic minority applicant benefited from reverse discrimination as much as the low socioeconomic minority applicant. I understand the latter somewhat but never the former. As this discussion relates to academia, merit based acceptances and hiring should be expected and demanded.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm for merit based hiring. You're the one for only hiring white people. I'm for hiring by merit among all candidates.

Why would merit based hiring exclude non-white candidates?
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I have never stated such a thing. The Rooney rule isn't about merit based hiring. It's about merit plus something else. That is racial discrimination/reverse racial discrimination. Merit based hiring excludes racial discrimination. Simosfrostyone nails it!
 
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