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Who directs athletic policies?

FWIW, Jeff Young, BOT, undergrad @ Wake
 
94Deac said:
I absolutely get where Loh's coming from. But when you look at what can happen when a university hires an alumnus for an athletic job, it can be too damaging to risk. Look at Rich Rodriguez and WVA. Amato at NC State. Groh at UVA. I mean, it's gotta be painful to get fired from your alma mater. And it's got to be hard to fire a legend from your school, regardless of performance.
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I don't expect coaches to be alums obviously. In fact I agree with you that it's often disastrous to hire one. (I would note that RichRod was a HUGE success at WVU; he should've stayed there.) Although Mackovic was successful at Wake and we wanted to keep him; he didn't have much loyalty to us though -- but with Wake not stepping up administratively to be competitive, I can't really blame him for being more ambitious. If you hire an alum as coach you should be okay as long as the alum was hired based on his record and you have an AD committed to winning who will fire him in a timely manner if he doesn't pan out.
 
Lohengrin said:
I don't expect coaches to be alums obviously. In fact I agree with you that it's often disastrous to hire one. (I would note that RichRod was a HUGE success at WVU; he should've stayed there.) Although Mackovic was successful at Wake and we wanted to keep him; he didn't have much loyalty to us though -- but with Wake not stepping up administratively to be competitive, I can't really blame him for being more ambitious. If you hire an alum as coach you should be okay as long as the alum was hired based on his record and you have an AD committed to winning who will fire him in a timely manner if he doesn't pan out.
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RichRod was successful at WVU but his departure was nothing short of a nightmare for all sides. I seem to recall him saying at one point that he felt like burning his degree after all that. You've underscored another reason to avoid alumni: loyalty in employees goes as far as their paychecks. Even for an alumnus. Agree wholly on being qualified for the job outside of merely being an alumnus, though.
 
A quick perusing of the BOT list shows John McAvoy, a classmate of mine, Larry Hopkins, MD (of WFU football fame), Al Hunt, famous alumnus, and Mit Shah, a rich and influential alumnus. My guess is that the majority of the BOT are alumni. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, Loh.
 
The problem with Wellman isn't that he's a Bowling Green guy. The problem is he hired a personal friend whose record in no way justified the hire and his giant ego will never allow him to admit he made a mistake. If this went down almost anywhere else they'd both be starting a job search.
 
Neurodeac said:
A quick perusing of the BOT list shows John McAvoy, a classmate of mine, Larry Hopkins, MD (of WFU football fame), Al Hunt, famous alumnus, and Mit Shah, a rich and influential alumnus. My guess is that the majority of the BOT are alumni. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, Loh.
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Feel free to mix yourself a cocktail, fire up a Cohiba, put your feet up, and give your old classmate a call tonight. You know, just checking in, seeing how things are going, Bzzthehellout, etc.
 
Man, this situation is going to get so ugly once [Redacted] is retained/contract extended and we have another terrible season next year. At best we will have a mediocre, .500 season with [Redacted] in charge. People will be out for blood (FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING, WFUPD!!!11!!) if we suffer through another 13 win season.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
The problem with Wellman isn't that he's a Bowling Green guy. The problem is he hired a personal friend whose record in no way justified the hire and his giant ego will never allow him to admit he made a mistake. If this went down almost anywhere else they'd both be starting a job search.
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IMO, one reason he hired a shitty coach is because he doesn't have the degree of pride that alums have. He's just some Bowling Green P.E. major who answers to no one and can enact any personal design that enters his head.

Most ADs are NOT alums, but they know that to keep their jobs they have to produce success. My point is that when Wellman goes off the reservation like he's done, who is there to fire his ass when our other administrative people aren't attuned to Wake sports either? Who's giving him the carte blanche?
 
Lohengrin said:
IMO, one reason he hired a shitty coach is because he doesn't have the degree of pride that alums have. He's just some Bowling Green P.E. major who answers to no one and can enact any personal design that enters his head.

Most ADs are NOT alums, but they know that to keep their jobs they have to produce success. My point is that when Wellman goes off the reservation like he's done, who is there to fire his ass when our other administrative people aren't attuned to Wake sports either? Who's giving him the carte blanche?
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I understand what you're saying and basically agree with most of it. And to answer your question, it is the BOT and the big doners. They have bought into this culture change thing and are willing to give it more time. Like I said in a different thread a week ago, I know a long time fan and doner who thinks Bzz is the best coach we've had since Odom. He said it with a straight face and meant it. That is who is giving him carte blanche.
 
94Deac said:
Feel free to mix yourself a cocktail, fire up a Cohiba, put your feet up, and give your old classmate a call tonight. You know, just checking in, seeing how things are going, Bzzthehellout, etc.
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I don't think you want me doing that :D. I think you are assuming I'm Bzzout when in fact, I'm about the only BzzIn left on this board. Sorry.
 
Neurodeac said:
I don't think you want me doing that :D. I think you are assuming I'm Bzzout when in fact, I'm about the only BzzIn left on this board. Sorry.
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And I'm sorry for you silly you are going to feel in another year or two, looking back and and remembering that you thought [Redacted] was ever the answer and/or a good coach. Especially after three seasons of results at Wake pointed all empirical evidence against your beliefs.

That's going to be at least a little embarrassing for you, I think.
 
Neurodeac said:
I don't think you want me doing that :D. I think you are assuming I'm Bzzout when in fact, I'm about the only BzzIn left on this board. Sorry.
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I just assumed everybody who posted on these boards was objectively informed about the state of Wake Forest basketball, 94Deac was obviously in on this assumption and was incorrect. We all apologize.
 
Neurodeac said:
I don't think you want me doing that :D. I think you are assuming I'm Bzzout when in fact, I'm about the only BzzIn left on this board. Sorry.
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I'll tell you this much: I respect your moxie for saying as much. I find it astounding given the overwhelming evidence against [Redacted], even if you just boil it down to nothing more than statistics. I am curious if your adherence to BzzIn is rooted in anything more than hope (i.e. you're seeing some stat we're missing or have seen something demonstrating a brighter future) and/or at what point you'd become BzzOut. If you're not inclined to post that here, I understand but would be interested in reading a PM if you're interested.
 
I get where Loh is coming from in that it feels like the people running this shitshow seem far removed from most of us fans/alumni, etc. No, I don't think the AD has to be a Wake guy, but it seems like the people who are supposed to have our back and keep the AD in check are being led by him, rather than the other way around. There is no accountability.

I have always felt, rightfully so or not, that being an alum, I was part of a great group of people with a shared experience, small in number, but somehow connected. I have come to realize through this that the small number of people who are in charge have a very, very different idea of the Wake Forest experience. I suppose I (and most of us) were always on the outside, just didn't ever realize it.

ETA: Intercollegiate athletics is supposed to be entertaining and remind us of our days at Wake Forest, bring people together in healthy competition, etc. We've all had some letdowns as WF fans, but now it just feels like a handful of people (who probably don't even go to games, for fuck's sake, there's no way they go to games, right?) just gave a big fuck you to all of us. Hard to feel a part of anything.
 
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94Deac said:
I'll tell you this much: I respect your moxie for saying as much. I find it astounding given the overwhelming evidence against [Redacted], even if you just boil it down to nothing more than statistics. I am curious if your adherence to BzzIn is rooted in anything more than hope (i.e. you're seeing some stat we're missing or have seen something demonstrating a brighter future) and/or at what point you'd become BzzOut. If you're not inclined to post that here, I understand but would be interested in reading a PM if you're interested.
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No, I don't have any secret stats or inside information. You're right, I don't think it would be useful to rehash the arguments, especially being outnumbered 1 million to one. Suffice it to say that 2 years of graduate level statistics taught me that stats without context are useless. My interpretation of the context would be label me as naive, being an apologist, a shill for the AD, or worse on this board. So I'll just leave it at that.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
I understand what you're saying and basically agree with most of it. And to answer your question, it is the BOT and the big doners. They have bought into this culture change thing and are willing to give it more time. Like I said in a different thread a week ago, I know a long time fan and doner who thinks Bzz is the best coach we've had since Odom. He said it with a straight face and meant it. That is who is giving him carte blanche.
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I truly believe that all power corrupts. Such is probably the thinking behind every political film (coaching hire) ever made in Hollywood (by Ron Wellman).
Elia Kazan
 
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