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Kill the Farm Bill

Deacon923 said:
Is this directed at me? Because I have not said one thing on this thread about anybody not paying their mortgage.
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By "wondering" how many take advantage of MID it appeared that's what you were saying. If that's wrong, my bad.

But the reality is even if only half do, it's a huge number and a number that would grow dramatically as more homes are put underwater by eliminating the deduction.

Eliminating the MID would be a watershed event for rich real estate investor who be able to scoop up properties to rent.
 
PhDeac said:
That one side was the Republicans as the Democrats pursued a big compromise solution instead of doing the little things they could agree on.
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Cannot agree with you there. They were not the party that shoved another major entitlement program down the throats of everyone without a single vote from the other party.
 
Only because the Republicans decided not to work with Democrats. Did you not follow this at all? Why do you think it took so long? They spent over a year looking for bipartisan support before going it alone. Republicans decided "repeal and replace" was a better strategy than compromise.
 
PhDeac said:
Only because the Republicans decided not to work with Democrats. Did you not follow this at all? Why do you think it took so long? They spent over a year looking for bipartisan support before going it alone. Republicans decided "repeal and replace" was a better strategy than compromise.
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Either way, I think we as a country are screwed by it. There will be no compromise and working together by the branches of government for the next 4 and 1/2 years. Obama is a lock for reelection and the opposition will hold onto either the senate or the house. This wedge issue that should have been dropped if a compromise could not be reached has created an environment of distrust and disfunction I have never seen before in my lifetime.
 
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RJKarl said:
By "wondering" how many take advantage of MID it appeared that's what you were saying. If that's wrong, my bad.

But the reality is even if only half do, it's a huge number and a number that would grow dramatically as more homes are put underwater by eliminating the deduction.

Eliminating the MID would be a watershed event for rich real estate investor who be able to scoop up properties to rent.
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I was wondering how many of the underwater actually take the deduction. If you don't itemize you don't get the deduction, and if your income is too high you give some of it back with the AMT. Only about 25% of taxpayers take the MID, and although I can't find firm statistics some sources seem to indicate that only about half of all people with a mortgage take the MID. Now that you bring it up, I guess it is true that if someone isn't paying their mortgage they can't deduct the interest, but that was not a major part of my point.
 
And it's 100% created by Mitch McConnell and the Tea Party in the House.

There's even a book about Newt and other Republicans planned to obstruct and defeat everything and anything Obama would try. This was unprecedented.

Obama gave the GOP tons of tax cuts in the stimulus. He also eliminated over a dozen pork projects the GOP asked him to do.

"Obamacare" is the GOP plan of the 1990s.

No POTUS in the past fifty years has had as few of his judicial or other appointments seated as the GOP has given Obama.

No Minority Leader in US stopped as bills as Mitch McConnell.

The GOP backed out of the "grand bargain" Boehner negotiated with Obama.

those are just some of the problems. The GOP in DC is a disgrace.
 
bobknightfan said:
You must be smoking dope. The Republicans have refused to compromise with Obama on anything from the first day he took office. Their universal obstructionism has been unprecedented in the nation's history. Obama tried to get GOP input on the healthcare bill...even dropped the public option (which he shouldn't have done) as an olive branch, but the Republicans never budged. He offered major concessions on the budget deficit reduction bill, but the Republicans never budged. Same thing with the jobs bill.

You are engaging in revisionist history when you try to shift the blame from the Republicans in congress to President Obama for the inability to find common ground on these issues.
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Bob I really do not care who you blame. The factt hat one party forced a major entitlement program on the country by a party line vote has destroyed the able of this government to work. Do you see a real possiblity that we will have functional government in the next 4 and 1/2 years? I really don't and I cannot remember a time that our government worked this poorly. I blame both sides, but the side that had the power to force legislation through on a strictly party line vote and choose to do it gets the bulk of the blame.
 
RJKarl said:
And it's 100% created by Mitch McConnell and the Tea Party in the House.

There's even a book about Newt and other Republicans planned to obstruct and defeat everything and anything Obama would try. This was unprecedented.

Obama gave the GOP tons of tax cuts in the stimulus. He also eliminated over a dozen pork projects the GOP asked him to do.

"Obamacare" is the GOP plan of the 1990s.

No POTUS in the past fifty years has had as few of his judicial or other appointments seated as the GOP has given Obama.

No Minority Leader in US stopped as bills as Mitch McConnell.

The GOP backed out of the "grand bargain" Boehner negotiated with Obama.

those are just some of the problems. The GOP in DC is a disgrace.
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Gee RJ you must be right because your side says so. Just because you have the votes to force a piece of legislation through without a single vote from the opposition does not mean you should do it. I don't think either side got it right even with the "Grand Compromise", we got more people covered but absolutely no cost controls. What happens when the insurance companies start really jackingup the rates? The market cannot work because the government is now forcing everyone to purchase. The bill has some great features (more people covered, no pre existing conditions and more) but it has some massive holes and we will be paying for those holes in the not to distant futureand forever.
 
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Deacon923 said:
I was wondering how many of the underwater actually take the deduction. If you don't itemize you don't get the deduction, and if your income is too high you give some of it back with the AMT. Only about 25% of taxpayers take the MID, and although I can't find firm statistics some sources seem to indicate that only about half of all people with a mortgage take the MID. Now that you bring it up, I guess it is true that if someone isn't paying their mortgage they can't deduct the interest, but that was not a major part of my point.
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We're not that far apart. regardless of what most like to think.

In general I agree with your point about versus later. But this is a unique situation.

For instance, we need to fund a $1.5-2,5T infrastructure/electrical grid right now. If we wait, money won't be as cheap, labor won't be as cheap and it will cost more. Why this is being stopped is counter any logic.
 
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olddke said:
Gee RJ you must be right because your side says so. Just because you have the votes to force a piece of legislation through without a single vote from the opposition does not mean you should do it. I don't think either side got it right even with the "Grand Compromise", we got more people covered but absolutely no cost controls. What happens when the insurance companies start really jackingup the rates? The market cannot work because the government is now forcing everyone to purchase. The bill has some great features (more people covered, no pre existing conditions and more) but it has some massive holes and we will be paying for those holes in the not to distant futureand forever.
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Each of these things is indisputable historical fact:

There's even a book about Newt and other Republicans planned to obstruct and defeat everything and anything Obama would try. This was unprecedented.

Obama gave the GOP tons of tax cuts in the stimulus. He also eliminated over a dozen pork projects the GOP asked him to do.

"Obamacare" is the GOP plan of the 1990s.

No POTUS in the past fifty years has had as few of his judicial or other appointments seated as the GOP has given Obama.

No Minority Leader in US stopped as bills as Mitch McConnell.

The GOP backed out of the "grand bargain" Boehner negotiated with Obama."

They aren't disputable.
 
Little known fact is that about 85% of farm bill is food assistance to lower income families (ie: food stamps).

I know this thread has sidetracked to mortgage income deduction talk but people need to know their facts before they say "kill the farm bill". Farmers have had heir funding cut massively in this new bill.
 
olddke said:
Bob I really do not care who you blame. The factt hat one party forced a major entitlement program on the country by a party line vote has destroyed the able of this government to work. Do you see a real possiblity that we will have functional government in the next 4 and 1/2 years? I really don't and I cannot remember a time that our government worked this poorly. I blame both sides, but the side that had the power to force legislation through on a strictly party line vote and choose to do it gets the bulk of the blame.
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Elections have consequences. Except when they don't, right?
 
Interestng that some of the board libs are so interested in killing food stamp and nutrition programs for the lower income sector. Might want to read what you are trying to kill before it is dead.
 
Deacon923 said:
I have claimed on this thread, and the numbers unequivocally back me up, that the MID goes disproportionately to the top 17% of earners in the US. If that is what RJ is responding to, I am happy to defend the position.
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No question.
 
Wrangor said:
Little known fact is that about 85% of farm bill is food assistance to lower income families (ie: food stamps).

I know this thread has sidetracked to mortgage income deduction talk but people need to know their facts before they say "kill the farm bill". Farmers have had heir funding cut massively in this new bill.
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Interesting. I didn't not know that.
 
Wrangor said:
Interestng that some of the board libs are so interested in killing food stamp and nutrition programs for the lower income sector. Might want to read what you are trying to kill before it is dead.
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My thread title was intentionally provocative (although it provoked something totally different from what I expected). If you read my OP and the linked articles it is all about direct subsidies, not the food stamp program. In addition to the subsidies, the farm bill is jam-packed with porkola of the most ridiculous kind.

That is not to say that the food stamp piece of it is perfect. Government mandates about what gets served in school lunches and what kinds of food can be bought with food stamps are HEAVILY influenced by the farm lobby. That is why all kinds of hugely processed ag by-products get counted as "vegetables" in school lunches, because it creates a market for Big Ag to sell into. Similarly, the food stamp program, while it does do a great deal to alleviate hunger, is in many ways a backdoor subsidy to Big Ag - it creates a much bigger market for agricultural products than would exist in the absence of the program.

In any case, why should funding for poverty relief be packaged with agricultural subsidies for huge agribusinesses? Shouldn't these issues be debated separately on their own merits? The answer, of course, is that Democrats can defend their vote subsidizing evil Big Ag by saying they're helping the poor, and Republicans can defend their vote subsidizing the evil poor by saying they're helping the noble family farmer.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Colum...s-Farm-Bill-Thats-Packed-with-Pork.aspx#page1
 
Wrangor said:
Little known fact is that about 85% of farm bill is food assistance to lower income families (ie: food stamps).

I know this thread has sidetracked to mortgage income deduction talk but people need to know their facts before they say "kill the farm bill". Farmers have had heir funding cut massively in this new bill.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Direct subsidies have been cut, but the funding has been redirected into new or expanded crop insurance entitlements.
 
Deacon923 said:
My thread title was intentionally provocative (although it provoked something totally different from what I expected). If you read my OP and the linked articles it is all about direct subsidies, not the food stamp program. In addition to the subsidies, the farm bill is jam-packed with porkola of the most ridiculous kind.

That is not to say that the food stamp piece of it is perfect. Government mandates about what gets served in school lunches and what kinds of food can be bought with food stamps are HEAVILY influenced by the farm lobby. That is why all kinds of hugely processed ag by-products get counted as "vegetables" in school lunches, because it creates a market for Big Ag to sell into. Similarly, the food stamp program, while it does do a great deal to alleviate hunger, is in many ways a backdoor subsidy to Big Ag - it creates a much bigger market for agricultural products than would exist in the absence of the program.

In any case, why should funding for poverty relief be packaged with agricultural subsidies for huge agribusinesses? Shouldn't these issues be debated separately on their own merits? The answer, of course, is that Democrats can defend their vote subsidizing evil Big Ag by saying they're helping the poor, and Republicans can defend their vote subsidizing the evil poor by saying they're helping the noble family farmer.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Colum...s-Farm-Bill-Thats-Packed-with-Pork.aspx#page1
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Sigh. I still need to spread more rep.
 
bobknightfan;805424 People like you seem to think said:
You are correct. Obama has no more "right" to pass his agenda than does any other president. Government 101 as constructed by the Framers.
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