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The Islamic Dilemma

pourdeac said:
Apparently there are.

So if we ignore the racial makeup of gun violence, gangs, rights of self-defense, gun free zone failures, drug laws, hunter culture, political drivers (on both sides), gun industry, military contribution, history and then boil it down to "having faith in weapons to solve all their problems" which is bizarre in and of itself, then it's simple. Wow.

Sure, if you ignore all the complexities and then make shit up....then Voila! A seductive formula if you can get away with it for sure!
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Make shit up? You just listed the examples of what I said.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So what's the explanation for ignoring literally tens of thousands of gun deaths in America this year but wetting your pants thinking about ISIS and Islamic terrorism which has killed 4k people in 45 years in America?
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Because many Americans sense the radical Islam problem is much larger than most want to accept, especially when the standard practice is to lump all religions together as the same...when they clearly are not. Americans don't want to be equated to radical Islam.

This was done by a Muslim and it gives her view of radical Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So what's the explanation for ignoring literally tens of thousands of gun deaths in America this year but wetting your pants thinking about ISIS and Islamic terrorism which has killed 4k people in 45 years in America?
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You could pretty much say the same thing about ignoring tens of thousands of black on black gun deaths in America but wetting your pants any time it's a white on black gun death. It's a pretty dangerous road to go down on
 
tintinisahottie said:
You could pretty much say the same thing about ignoring tens of thousands of black on black gun deaths in America but wetting your pants any time it's a white on black gun death. It's a pretty dangerous road to go down on
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False equivalency, bro
 
Deacsfan27 said:
We disagree on this.

It's terrifying to me that people who steadfastly believe everything written in a book over 2000 years are running our country. That is a much bigger threat than a terrorist group located halfway across the world that has killed 45 people in 15 years on American soil.

I'm not saying that ISIS isn't a problem either, but as 923 said, it's not worth sending our troops over there in harms way to prevent things from happening here that are occurring once a year.

That is much more of a threat domestically than ISIS over in the middle east.
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The thing is that they don't even steadfastly believe the actual words written in the Bible. Half of the shit they rail about has flimsy support, at best, in the Bible. I'm more scared of people who selectively use the words of a 2000 year old book to support their own prejudices than people who follow every single word religiously.
 
tintinisahottie said:
ban muslims. deals with all islamic terrorism
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You've already got a leading presidential candidate proposing that very thing, so outright bans on certain freedoms must not be as outragious as you make them out to be.
 
jhmd2000 said:
If so, then what was the point of the argument about scale? Either scale matters or it doesn't.
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Scale matters. Context matters even more. ISIS is not a serious threat to the United States on a widespread scale nor on an individual scale (individual person's likelihood of being killed domestically by an Islamic terrorist). Gun violence is a huge issue - regardless of who is killing who.

Banning guns addresses both black on black and white on black gun violence. Banning Islam does not address the 10k+ gun deaths a year which is my exact original point: why are people so concerned about ISIS domestically but not guns domestically?

My views on that are ideologically consistent. I'm not saying "end white on black gun violence," I'm saying "end gun violence."

If you're someone (Trump) looking for broad ideas aimed at keeping America safe then the broad "ban all guns" will be far more effective than "ban all Muslims from entering the country."

Similarly I heard on NPR this morning that a new poll is out showing that while the majority of Americans now believe Islam terrorism is our greatest threat as a nation after the Paris incident, there was no corresponding uptick in how safe or unsafe people felt individually. In other words people believe Islam terrorists threaten our nation but aren't threatening to them specifically as individuals. Interesting dissonance there to parse through.
 
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Wakeforest22890 said:
Scale matters. Context matters even more. ISIS is not a serious threat to the United States on a widespread scale nor on an individual scale (individual person's likelihood of being killed domestically by an Islamic terrorist). Gun violence is a huge issue - regardless of who is killing who.

Banning guns addresses both black on black and white on black gun violence. Banning Islam does not address the 10k+ gun deaths a year which is my exact original point: why are people so concerned about ISIS domestically but not guns domestically?

My views on that are ideologically consistent. I'm not saying "end white on black gun violence," I'm saying "end gun violence."
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Your views are consistent--consistently lame.
 
simosfrostyone said:
Your views are consistent--consistently lame.
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ZING. Good one.

Seriously though if people are truly concerned about safety rather than other various motives, then the broadest step you could advocate for would be "ban guns" not "ban Muslims." People who are crying "ban Muslims" typically aren't also crying "ban guns." I say ban guns but not ban Muslims because the former is a serious problem domestically while the latter simply isn't - at all. ISIS is a problem globally but it's not something America should get dragged into by sending in ground troops, as 923 put it, to go die in a desert somewhere.
 
I get that you want to ban guns. There are two problems with that. The second amendment and the fact that there are 3 million guns in circulation in the US alone. It doesn't even work in Europe, with its strict gun laws. You do understand that it won't work, right?
 
What doesn't work in Europe? The homicide rate due to guns in the US is more than 3 times greater than any single European country other than Montenegro.
 
I thought we were talking about Islamic terrorism. Did you happen to notice how they killed all those people in Paris? Hint: it wasn't with knives.
 
Read the following in the Wall Street Journal this morning:

More than one quarter worry they or their family will be a victim of a terror attack. The most prominent news event of 2015, in the public’s mind, was the terrorist attack in Paris.
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Don't really have a lot of commentary on this, but it's strange to me that such an irrational fear (and it is an irrational fear when you look at the numbers historically) is causing approximately 25% of Americans to think that they or a loved one will be the target of a terrorist attack.

What is the primary thing causing all this? Fear mongering? Overexposure? The recency effect of Paris and San Bernardino?

I'm not being #dense here. I really don't understand why people are so damn afraid of something that has such a small (minuscule really) chance of happening. There are so many other things that can keep America safe than focus on terrorism, especially jihadist terrorism.

Can somebody explain it to me?
 
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