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Dave Clawson Credibility Watch

DEACS76 said:
Wake has won the National Championship in Soccer and Field Hockey. We've been to the tourney in Baseball and Tennis. Would we have done that without the P5 money?
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We were the only ACC team to win the NCAA baseball title (1955) until UVa won it in 2015. Always thought that was shocking.
 
Lohengrin said:
Without P5 athletics WF would slowly drop off the map academically. Football is the only ticket to P5. Basketball schools are a dime-a-dozen.
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Agree to some extent. P5 sports are a huge reason Wake is considered a "national" university. IMO, the shift in reputation from a "regional" to "national" school had less to do with anything Wake did and more to do with (1) getting reclassified as a "research" university by the Carnegie Foundation circa early 90s; and (2) Tim Duncan.

Without membership in the ACC, we're the University of Richmond.
 
This whole thread watching Clawson's credibility 1 game into his third season at Wake is funny. Y'all know that we gave Jim Caldwell 8 years and it was 7 years before he had a winning record, right? Clawson is not going anywhere just yet.
 
That was also how long ago? This day in age coaching is a lot different. If you aren't winning, you will be replaced quickk by someone who else to give it a go.

birdman said:
This whole thread watching Clawson's credibility 1 game into his third season at Wake is funny. Y'all know that we gave Jim Caldwell 8 years and it was 7 years before he had a winning record, right? Clawson is not going anywhere just yet.
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inspectah said:
Agree to some extent. P5 sports are a huge reason Wake is considered a "national" university. IMO, the shift in reputation from a "regional" to "national" school had less to do with anything Wake did and more to do with (1) getting reclassified as a "research" university by the Carnegie Foundation circa early 90s; and (2) Tim Duncan.

Without membership in the ACC, we're the University of Richmond.
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Getting out of the P5 would make it much easier to choose Richmond or Emory or Davidson over Wake. Those schools have Wake beat on location.
 
Whatever coach WF might get isn't going to be able to turn them into a contender in this ACC....and even if they found one who could, he wouldn't hang around long enough to do it. John Mackovic won 8 games & took Wake to a bowl in 1979, first 8-win season in 35 years & first bowl in 31 years.....and left one year later. Cal Stoll won WF's 1st-ever ACC Championship in 1970....and left one year later.

Wake Forest is the ACC's Vanderbilt. Why didn't James Franklin stay at Vanderbilt? He had two straight 9-win seasons....and bolted for Penn State. Vanderbilt is 3-9 & 4-8 in the two years since he left.

Yes, the right coach can make a difference, but as MysteryMen asked: Why would a coach like that want to remain at WF when he could get a job at a football school like Penn State? In football, WF is a perennial "stepping-stone" job. You might strike lightening and get a good one....but if he turns out to be very good at all, you aren't going to keep him. Then you are starting all over again. This has been going on at WF since Jesus was a little boy.....and with the great majority of the hires they didn't even strike lightening to begin with. They just went from one dud to another dud. I think Clawson is the 13th football coach WF has had since the ACC was formed....and every single one of them left with a losing record. This one (and all the ones who come after him) will too, if WF remains in the ACC.
 
CantStandYa said:
How do the dozens of non-P5 schools that play D1 football pay for their non-revenue sports? How do some consistently show up in the top portion of the Capital One Cup standings?

The point is, it's not black and white. The writing is on the wall RE: a move to super-conferences motivated by football money. It's possible - though not probable - that WFU gets left out in such a scenario. If that happens, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Nah. In that scenario, the P5 conferences start their basketball tourney that will earn $$$$$. NCAA currently keeps that dough from CBS (I think there is a $1 billion contract). Insert Bz or Manning jokes here, but Wake stays relevant because round ball becomes much more valuable, IMO.
 
DEACS76 said:
Wake has won the National Championship in Soccer and Field Hockey. We've been to the tourney in Baseball and Tennis. Would we have done that without the P5 money?
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I don't disagree with your reasoning. However, there about 100 people who give two fucks about soccer and field hockey.

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canadiandeac said:
That was also how long ago? This day in age coaching is a lot different. If you aren't winning, you will be replaced quickk by someone who else to give it a go.
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Sure college football has changed...but we still have the same AD. Also of note, it's the same AD that gave the Bzaster 4 years.
 
canadiandeac said:
That was also how long ago? This day in age coaching is a lot different. If you aren't winning, you will be replaced quickk by someone who else to give it a go.
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The opposing coach on the sideline Saturday was given 5 years to do it.
 
Looks like Al Groh's record after 5 years, without the Bowl games.
 
BobHWS said:
In the one statistic that really matters (wins and losses), Cutcliffe's third and fourth years at Duke were worse than his first and second years. Should he have been put on "credibility watch" after year 3? Fired after year 4 (especially after losing the opening game of year 4 to Richmond 21-23)? Even in year 5 he had a losing record after the loss in the Belk Bowl. Fire Cutcliffe (retroactively :D)!

Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2008–present) Coach Cutcliffe years

2008 Duke 4–8 1–7 6th (Coastal)
2009 Duke 5–7 3–5 5th (Coastal)
2010 Duke 3–9 1–7 T–5th (Coastal)
2011 Duke 3–9 1–7 6th (Coastal)
2012 Duke 6–7 3–5 T–5th (Coastal) L Belk
2013 Duke 10–4 6–2 1st (Coastal) L Chick-fil-A
2014 Duke 9–4 5–3 2nd (Coastal) L Sun
2015 Duke 8–5 4–4 T–4th (Coastal) W Pinstripe
2016 Duke 1–0 0–0 (Coastal)
Duke: 49–53 24–40
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That a good comparison. I actually recall many Duke fans on their forum seriously questioning his ability to turn it around at about that time. Certainly any fans have a right to seriously question any regression. Thing is, there could be valid reasons for the regression that caused the school to hang on a little longer. Do you believe [Redacted] deserved more time at Wake based on the CoachK/Cutcliffe model? Duke has been lucky with these two coaches; both of whom had pedigree.
 
Bob, it looks like he went through 2 and a half recruiting generations for it to work. Why did it take that long to turn it around?
 
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